All Hands on Deck! Intel needed: How close to reality is TM's financial/job situation?

[Mark de Croix]

Maybe TM's biggest (and only) flaw is shortness of money. It's not because of any vices--he's one of the purest of them all. (It's no accident that TS became a spokesman for commercial products needing an image of integrity as well as for public service programs!). So how could someone so talented as TM not have a high-pay job--even in Hawaii?

Do you really think that being a PI (excuse me, a private investigator ) was his life-long dream? I don't think so. He's entering middle-age when time for experimentation has greatly narrowed. Added pressure would be the very high cost of living in Hawaii and job scarcity. I imagine that he opted out of working for TC or Rick and launched his own business on a lark. It would not require much investment and the working hours flexible. I got it! He gets a handsome pension from the Navy? Is that it? No, because he is always broke. (Anyone know how to gauge the likelihood of his pension status?)

Sure TM is free-spirited but he is also serious as hell. He would be forward thinking and knows he needs to build up a career. If he doesn't have a hi-tech background, he surely could get a high-track management job in business or industry given his elite military experience, if not going into high-end sales work or even male modeling. Even in Hawaii, I must think TM could get secure, high-pay professional work somewhere. No, it seems TM was forced into launching his PI business out of necessity. Really? Even TM would strike out in the usual employment routes?

[Pahonu]

Maybe TM's biggest (and only) flaw is shortness of money. It's not because of any vices--he's one of the purest of them all. (It's no accident that TS became a spokesman for commercial products needing an image of integrity as well as for public service programs!). So how could someone so talented as TM not have a high-pay job--even in Hawaii?

Do you really think that being a PI (excuse me, a private investigator ) was his life-long dream? I don't think so. He's entering middle-age when time for experimentation has greatly narrowed. Added pressure would be the very high cost of living in Hawaii and job scarcity. I imagine that he opted out of working for TC or Rick and launched his own business on a lark. It would not require much investment and the working hours flexible. I got it! He gets a handsome pension from the Navy? Is that it? No, because he is always broke. (Anyone know how to gauge the likelihood of his pension status?)

Sure TM is free-spirited but he is also serious as hell. He would be forward thinking and knows he needs to build up a career. If he doesn't have a hi-tech background, he surely could get a high-track management job in business or industry given his elite military experience, if not going into high-end sales work or even male modeling. Even in Hawaii, I must think TM could get secure, high-pay professional work somewhere. No, it seems TM was forced into launching his PI business out of necessity. Really? Even TM would strike out in the usual employment routes?

I think his character’s trajectory was pretty well explained in the pilot and repeated in later episodes. He had reached a more mature age in his 30’s and came to realize he had never had a chance to be a carefree 20-something because of his military career and the war. He was consciously trying to claw back some of that missed experience with his career decisions, at least in the early seasons.

[Mark de Croix]

Interesting! Was the pilot really so explicit as saying his doing the PI gig as a lark? He still could lead a carefree life in nearly any job--of course assuming he lives at Robin's Nest. Surely if he gets a good Navy pension, he wouldn't have to worry too much about career. Yet the stickler is he's always broke even though he's presumably living rent-free.

[Pahonu]

Interesting! Was the pilot really so explicit as saying his doing the PI gig as a lark? He still could lead a carefree life in nearly any job--of course assuming he lives at Robin's Nest. Surely if he gets a good Navy pension, he wouldn't have to worry too much about career. Yet the stickler is he's always broke even though he's presumably living rent-free.

In the pilot, he tells Alice in the guesthouse when she asks why he resigned. It was something like: it was nothing earth shattering, one day I woke up 33 and realized I had never been 23.

It’s also established in Wave Goodbye that after resigning, he became a PI before landing at Robin’s Nest, having a run-down office and a beater VW Beetle. He advertised on matchbooks.

I don’t know what kind of pension he might have had from his service though it’s implied he didn’t leave on good terms. That’s again from the pilot, in Cooley’s office.

Perhaps someone else here can comment on the pension. It seems to have not been much.

[Mark de Croix]

>>It’s also established in Wave Goodbye that after resigning, he became a PI before landing at Robin’s >>>Nest, having a run-down office and a beater VW Beetle. He advertised on matchbooks.

Excellent note. We see then the switch to Robin's greatly benefits financially. Good choice for ad outlet, by the way. Further well-noted is doubt about his pension. So his situation before Robin is fleshed out. Does it answer the question how realistic is his continual dire cash situation?

It is dire: In one scene he's pickpocketed and his wallet reveals only several dollar bills. Continually he borrows from others and makes known he's short on cash--"I like to treat the dogs with steak but this week, hamburger." That is his character flaw. Is it realistic however considering his awesome talent and purposeful mindset? That is, he should have no trouble getting a high-pay job.

Well he wants a free-spirited life. But being a PI is very hard work and time consuming--a lot entails tailing and surveillance: He has to catch people with the goods, so a lot of early morning and late evening investigating. A PI job may be the job least affording a lot of free time!

I have to conclude that good-jobs are so scarce in Oahu/Hawaii that even Thomas Sullivan Magnum can't be well placed. That seems reasonable based on what I've heard about the job market there. The creators of Magnum PI seem to know a lot about Hawaii. Without a Navy pension TM has to scrap a lot. His character flaw may be realistic, conditioned by the high cost of living in Oahu. Less a character flaw than the situational constraints. Our boy has even better character than we thought.

[Pahonu]

>>It’s also established in Wave Goodbye that after resigning, he became a PI before landing at Robin’s >>>Nest, having a run-down office and a beater VW Beetle. He advertised on matchbooks.

Excellent note. We see then the switch to Robin's greatly benefits financially. Good choice for ad outlet, by the way. Further well-noted is doubt about his pension. So his situation before Robin is fleshed out. Does it answer the question how realistic is his continual dire cash situation?

It is dire: In one scene he's pickpocketed and his wallet reveals only several dollar bills. Continually he borrows from others and makes known he's short on cash--"I like to treat the dogs with steak but this week, hamburger." That is his character flaw. Is it realistic however considering his awesome talent and purposeful mindset? That is, he should have no trouble getting a high-pay job.

Well he wants a free-spirited life. But being a PI is very hard work and time consuming--a lot entails tailing and surveillance: He has to catch people with the goods, so a lot of early morning and late evening investigating. A PI job may be the job least affording a lot of free time!

I have to conclude that good-jobs are so scarce in Oahu/Hawaii that even Thomas Sullivan Magnum can't be well placed. That seems reasonable based on what I've heard about the job market there. The creators of Magnum PI seem to know a lot about Hawaii. Without a Navy pension TM has to scrap a lot. His character flaw may be realistic, conditioned by the high cost of living in Oahu. Less a character flaw than the situational constraints. Our boy has even better character than we thought.

There’s also an episode, I don’t recall which, where TM says he’s not as “liquid” as Rick and TC regarding an investment opportunity. Rick also comments at one point that while TM is paid well for his services, he only gets paying jobs a few times a year. How many episodes, like the pilot, does TM not actually have a paying client?

[Mark de Croix]

Pahonu, that's an interesting question for we historians of the show. But doesn't the show depend on TM's cases for story material? So it is not unexpected that cases figure so much. Here's a stickler: Sometimes TM does cases gratis--thereby merging the show into fantasy. The guy runs around with a hole in his wallet. Ah ah, doing things gratis softens his image for viewers, purposely devised for his characterization and the show's popularity. Contradictory aims then between realism and fantasy.'t So getting the skinny on TM won't always be easy. Realism may sometimes bow in favor of fantasy. Beyond appreciating TM more, I hoped the thread could shed light on the larger society. Are there high-functioning/talented people like TM finding it difficult to make ends meet?

[Styles Bitchley]

The character is designed to be a fantasy for male viewers. He's got access to the the high life, but none of the responsibility of maintaining it. He's even got a life of excitement because of his PI work - so exciting that you can base a TV show on his life. The fact that he's always broke makes him more relatable to the audience too. Regardless of how realistic it is, it's a great premise for the lead character in a show. Like anything fictional, you'll find holes in reality if you're looking for them. It's more fun not to look.

[Pahonu]

I agree wit Styles about bringing all those elements together to make the show both exciting and relatable. It was Selleck who wanted the character to have problems and idiosyncrasies rather than the James Bond type as the original premise was. Plus, most actual pi work is really tedious surveillance type stuff from what I’ve read.

I can think of lots of episodes where TM didn’t get paid, like any of the many episodes where he had to do something for Robin. He wouldn’t take payment in many cases like Dead Man’s Channel, and he did have to with no rent, etc…. There were also stories where things were entirely personal, for himself as in Memories are Forever, or to help out friends like TC in Thicker than Blood or KC in Wave Goodbye. These are just off the top of my head. A few episodes even include him trying to get paid after getting stiffed. Higgins’ jokes about him photographing people in tawdry divorce cases is probably the most we ever hear about paying jobs for TM.

On a side note, it was a common storyline in fellow pi series The Rockford Files that Jim got stiffed. I think the basic concept is that independent pi’s live more hand to mouth than those at big detective firms. There’s even a Rockford episode about just that, Sticks and Stones may Break Your Bones, but Waterbury will Bury You. Love that title! Waterbury being a big detective firm.

[Styles Bitchley]

And don't forget Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer. Most of his cases were personal where he was out to avenge someone's murder. Not a lot of money in that, but he managed to afford an office in Manhattan. Again, don't look for realistic details. There aren't a lot of shows that follow the adventures of accountants.

[Pahonu]

There aren't a lot of shows that follow the adventures of accountants.

LMAO!!

[Mark de Croix]

I second Pahonu with LMAO. I appreciated both your posts, Pahonu and Styles. Thank you for that. Hell if I could change places with TM, I'm there now. Absolutely this is male fantasy maxed. And it doesn't get old, does it. The show is now ancient and the cobwebs thick at our places while we watch--but invariably it gives me a glow or some respite. I never lost sight that we deal with pure fantasy but ultimately the show must try to be realistic--the more realism, the better. Up to a point, that is. So I'm just plotting out that point. I must think that even TM found in Hawaii the employment market for young professionals extremely tight. Again thanks.

[Gorilla Mask]

Why is TM always broke? Actually, I've never really asked myself that question. I've always accepted (in the meta reality of the show...) that this aspect of things made it much easier to be hilarious and humorous. Sort of a 'breeding ground' for theatrical dialogue.

Following Styles and Pahonu advices, I think it was much more convenient and easy for the writers. If TM had had all the easy and effortless means of a Largo Winch and well, it would have been less fun, less endearing...

I always thought that the Matt Houston series with Lee Horsley (who also plays the private detective) was the antithesis of Magnum PI, even though it was worthwhile. I also remember not liking the 'high life' aspect of that show.

[Pahonu]

Why is TM always broke? Actually, I've never really asked myself that question. I've always accepted (in the meta reality of the show...) that this aspect of things made it much easier to be hilarious and humorous. Sort of a 'breeding ground' for theatrical dialogue.

Following Styles and Pahonu advices, I think it was much more convenient and easy for the writers. If TM had had all the easy and effortless means of a Largo Winch and well, it would have been less fun, less endearing...

I always thought that the Matt Houston series with Lee Horsley (who also plays the private detective) was the antithesis of Magnum PI, even though it was worthwhile. I also remember not liking the 'high life' aspect of that show.

Great point about Matt Houston! He had all the toys, like his own helicopter and fast car and assistant. He didn’t have to beg, borrow, or cajole his friends for them, but that made for some of the greatest and most humorous interactions.

[Pahonu]

I second Pahonu with LMAO. I appreciated both your posts, Pahonu and Styles. Thank you for that. Hell if I could change places with TM, I'm there now. Absolutely this is male fantasy maxed. And it doesn't get old, does it. The show is now ancient and the cobwebs thick at our places while we watch--but invariably it gives me a glow or some respite. I never lost sight that we deal with pure fantasy but ultimately the show must try to be realistic--the more realism, the better. Up to a point, that is. So I'm just plotting out that point. I must think that even TM found in Hawaii the employment market for young professionals extremely tight. Again thanks.

I understand your point, and it is fun to think about these things. It actually ended up being far less fantasy because of both Bellisario’s and Selleck’s changes to Glen Larson’s original concept. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that concept but it included a cliff top home and a hang glider with machine guns!