The Rockford Files

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

Pahonu wrote:
Like the episode Just Another Polish Wedding with Gandy and Gabby, this episode was another attempt at a back door pilot, I believe. This attempt at spinning off another show by creating new characters within a popular series had become quite common in the 70’s and 80’s...The champion of back door pilots was Happy Days, which not only spun off regular characters like Joanie and Chachi in the traditional method, but created the characters of Mork, and Laverne and Shirley in single episodes, then launched them into successful series.

Hi Pahonu,
I think you are right as to Happy Days being the King of Back Door pilots, as defined by you, by spinning off characters that appeared on it to start with.
The Danny Thomas Show begat Andy Griffith and the Bill Dana show, with characters spun off as you define them above. But the Danny Thomas Show was the undisputed
world wide king of existing in a Universe connected to other TV shows,11 series, including itself.
From the It Got By The Censor/In Jokes thread here at Magnum Mania:

1) The Danny Thomas Show
2) The Andy Griffith Show
3) Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.
4) Mayberry R.F.D.
5) Joey Bishop Show
6) The Bill Dana Show
7) The Dick Van Dyke Show
8 I Love Lucy
9) Superman
10) Private Secretary
11) Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour

In the episode "Lucy and Superman" of I Love Lucy, Superman (George Reeves) guest stars as himself, the Man of Steel. The producers didn't want to ruin the illusion for the millions of
kids tuning in and treated Superman as being for real. In "Lucy Takes a Cruise to Havana" from the Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour, Ann Southern appears as Susie McNamara, her role from Private Secretary.
Since Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour was indeed separate from I Love Lucy, I'm counting the above tie-ins as two more connected series.

That’s quite a list! I don’t know the details about many of them, but I do know that I Love Lucy was a radio program called My Favorite Husband before transitioning to TV. Many changes were made of course, including Lucille Ball’s insistence that Desi Arnaz replace the actor playing her husband, against the network’s wishes. I don’t see how it could be considered a spin off of another TV show then. That actor was Richard Denning who would later play the Governor on Hawaii Five-O and appear in The Creature from the Black Lagoon.
[/quote]

Pahonu,
My fault, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that the Danny Thomas Show is connected to more TV series than any other, thus "Danny Williams" lived in the same fictional universe as the
other series and could interact with the people that populated them. Not that the Danny Thomas Show spun off I Love Lucy.
Danny Williams drove into Mayberry where Andy jailed him. Gomer Pyle of course lived in Mayberry, as did the people of Mayberry RFD. "Barney Fife as Deputy Sheriff Don Knotts", in full Mayberry uniform appeared on the Joey Bishop Show, so now we know Barney at one point went to Hollywood to act. Jose Jimenez(Bill Dana) worked in Danny Williams apartment house, he was spun off into the Bill Dana Show.
Buddy Sorrell(Morey Amsterdam) from the Dick Van Dyke Show visited Danny William's apartment. The Ricardos (I Love Lucy) stayed at the Williams apartment too. Superman visited the Ricardos on I Love
Lucy. Private Secretary's Susie McNamara (Ann Southern) met the Ricardos in the Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour.
So going along with the premise that these people all inhabit the same world, Superman could visit Mayberry and romance the lovely Juanita at the diner or even pitch woo to Miss Crump.
Just an aside, but in one of the early Superman episodes the "Mayberry" set appears, I think it was the one with the Mole Men.
Sorry to go off on a tangent Rockford Files fans, back to Jim and Angel and the gang.

[Pahonu]

Pahonu wrote:
Like the episode Just Another Polish Wedding with Gandy and Gabby, this episode was another attempt at a back door pilot, I believe. This attempt at spinning off another show by creating new characters within a popular series had become quite common in the 70’s and 80’s...The champion of back door pilots was Happy Days, which not only spun off regular characters like Joanie and Chachi in the traditional method, but created the characters of Mork, and Laverne and Shirley in single episodes, then launched them into successful series.

Hi Pahonu,
I think you are right as to Happy Days being the King of Back Door pilots, as defined by you, by spinning off characters that appeared on it to start with.
The Danny Thomas Show begat Andy Griffith and the Bill Dana show, with characters spun off as you define them above. But the Danny Thomas Show was the undisputed
world wide king of existing in a Universe connected to other TV shows,11 series, including itself.
From the It Got By The Censor/In Jokes thread here at Magnum Mania:

1) The Danny Thomas Show
2) The Andy Griffith Show
3) Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.
4) Mayberry R.F.D.
5) Joey Bishop Show
6) The Bill Dana Show
7) The Dick Van Dyke Show
8 I Love Lucy
9) Superman
10) Private Secretary
11) Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour

In the episode "Lucy and Superman" of I Love Lucy, Superman (George Reeves) guest stars as himself, the Man of Steel. The producers didn't want to ruin the illusion for the millions of
kids tuning in and treated Superman as being for real. In "Lucy Takes a Cruise to Havana" from the Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour, Ann Southern appears as Susie McNamara, her role from Private Secretary.
Since Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour was indeed separate from I Love Lucy, I'm counting the above tie-ins as two more connected series.

That’s quite a list! I don’t know the details about many of them, but I do know that I Love Lucy was a radio program called My Favorite Husband before transitioning to TV. Many changes were made of course, including Lucille Ball’s insistence that Desi Arnaz replace the actor playing her husband, against the network’s wishes. I don’t see how it could be considered a spin off of another TV show then. That actor was Richard Denning who would later play the Governor on Hawaii Five-O and appear in The Creature from the Black Lagoon.

Pahonu,
My fault, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that the Danny Thomas Show is connected to more TV series than any other, thus "Danny Williams" lived in the same fictional universe as the
other series and could interact with the people that populated them. Not that the Danny Thomas Show spun off I Love Lucy.
Danny Williams drove into Mayberry where Andy jailed him. Gomer Pyle of course lived in Mayberry, as did the people of Mayberry RFD. "Barney Fife as Deputy Sheriff Don Knotts", in full Mayberry uniform appeared on the Joey Bishop Show, so now we know Barney at one point went to Hollywood to act. Jose Jimenez(Bill Dana) worked in Danny Williams apartment house, he was spun off into the Bill Dana Show.
Buddy Sorrell(Morey Amsterdam) from the Dick Van Dyke Show visited Danny William's apartment. The Ricardos (I Love Lucy) stayed at the Williams apartment too. Superman visited the Ricardos on I Love
Lucy. Private Secretary's Susie McNamara (Ann Southern) met the Ricardos in the Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour.
So going along with the premise that these people all inhabit the same world, Superman could visit Mayberry and romance the lovely Juanita at the diner or even pitch woo to Miss Crump.
Just an aside, but in one of the early Superman episodes the "Mayberry" set appears, I think it was the one with the Mole Men.
Sorry to go off on a tangent Rockford Files fans, back to Jim and Angel and the gang.
[/quote]





I gotcha now. No worries, and that’s still an impressive list of characters in the same fictional universe. I enjoy I Love Lucy but my wife is the big fan. I’ve gleaned much from her books on the subject.

Can I ask what you thought of the Rockford TV movies in the 90’s?

[Little Garwood]

A question for the car experts:

Is Richie Brockelman’s Ford Mustang the same make/model and year as that of Carl Kolchak’s Mustang? Both shows were Universal productions, so I’m wondering if Kolchak’s car found its way over to Brockelman.

[Pahonu]

A question for the car experts:

Is Richie Brockelman’s Ford Mustang the same make/model and year as that of Carl Kolchak’s Mustang? Both shows were Universal productions, so I’m wondering if Kolchak’s car found its way over to Brockelman.

I never made that connection and I have Kolchak on DVD too. Duh!

Funny to think that the Mustang was depicted as just an old beater car in both series, while today… !!!

The same is true for Harry-O’s Austin-Henley Sprite. It was usually depicted as broken down in the series.

Random note: Harry-0 and Kolchak both debuted on ABC in 1974 with Rockford on NBC.

[Little Garwood]

Speaking of random notes: It’s funny you should mention 1974, as I am a bit obsessed with that brief window of 1974-75. It’s unique in that it defines my idea of what the ‘70s were, pop culturally. It’s not quite the 1960s hangover of the early ‘70s, nor is it the empty Disco craze, Aaron Spelling-style TV associated with the late ‘70s. This brief window ends when Jaws hit the theaters and Disco really begins to take off. Sure, there is some cultural and political overlap, but then decades really don’t fit into tidy little boxes for characterization.

[Pahonu]

Speaking of random notes: It’s funny you should mention 1974, as I am a bit obsessed with that brief window of 1974-75. It’s unique in that it defines my idea of what the ‘70s were, pop culturally. It’s not quite the 1960s hangover of the early ‘70s, nor is it the empty Disco craze, Aaron Spelling-style TV associated with the late ‘70s. This brief window ends when Jaws hit the theaters and Disco really begins to take off. Sure, there is some cultural and political overlap, but then decades really don’t fit into tidy little boxes for characterization.

Very intriguing and, I think, accurate analysis. The 70’s is often considered the second Golden Age of film after the 30’s. TV was also quite creative in the decade.

Sadly, the Aaron Spelling type shows you mention were the cause of Harry-O’s demise… and David Janssen’s decision to no longer do series TV. ABC’s Fred Silverman canceled the series to go in a different direction with Charlie’s Angels.

[Little Garwood]

Ever hear about SNL writer Michael O’Donoghue’s never-aired sketch about Fred Silverman? It’s called “Last Ten Days in Silverman’s Bunker.” John Belushi was to play Fred Silverman.

The few Brockelman episodes I’ve watched bear little resemblance to Rockford’s ‘70s. Even latter-season Rockford retains its edge, but the Brockelman show is a different universe. Plus, the Brockelman theme is fun, whereas episode underscore is mostly pretty bad. I still like the character, though, and always I enjoy those episodes of TRF when Richie is teamed up with Jim. Imo most 1977-1980 TV is a depressing vaccuum. I thought so even as a (pretty clueless) child when shows like CHiPs, Sheriff Lobo, BJ and the Bear, The Dukes of Hazzard, et al., roamed broadcast television during my early childhood. I wouldn’t include Brockelman with those shows, but it’s far away from the type of early ‘70s tv series I loved then and now.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

Pahonu wrote:
Like the episode Just Another Polish Wedding with Gandy and Gabby, this episode was another attempt at a back door pilot, I believe. This attempt at spinning off another show by creating new characters within a popular series had become quite common in the 70’s and 80’s...The champion of back door pilots was Happy Days, which not only spun off regular characters like Joanie and Chachi in the traditional method, but created the characters of Mork, and Laverne and Shirley in single episodes, then launched them into successful series.

Hi Pahonu,
I think you are right as to Happy Days being the King of Back Door pilots, as defined by you, by spinning off characters that appeared on it to start with.
The Danny Thomas Show begat Andy Griffith and the Bill Dana show, with characters spun off as you define them above. But the Danny Thomas Show was the undisputed
world wide king of existing in a Universe connected to other TV shows,11 series, including itself.
From the It Got By The Censor/In Jokes thread here at Magnum Mania:

1) The Danny Thomas Show
2) The Andy Griffith Show
3) Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.
4) Mayberry R.F.D.
5) Joey Bishop Show
6) The Bill Dana Show
7) The Dick Van Dyke Show
8 I Love Lucy
9) Superman
10) Private Secretary
11) Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour

In the episode "Lucy and Superman" of I Love Lucy, Superman (George Reeves) guest stars as himself, the Man of Steel. The producers didn't want to ruin the illusion for the millions of
kids tuning in and treated Superman as being for real. In "Lucy Takes a Cruise to Havana" from the Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour, Ann Southern appears as Susie McNamara, her role from Private Secretary.
Since Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour was indeed separate from I Love Lucy, I'm counting the above tie-ins as two more connected series.

Hey Dobie,

I'm a little confused by the idea that LUCY and SUPERMAN are part of the same TV universe. Just because Lucy tells Little Ricky that Superman is coming for his birthday doesn't mean that there really is a Superman in the world of I LOVE LUCY. It just means that Little Ricky watches Superman on TV (same as any other kid at the time) and idolizes the Man of Steel. Who knows? Maybe in the mind of Little Ricky Superman is real since he's just a little kid. It's just that if Lucy told Little Ricky that George Reeves is coming for his birthday that wouldn't mean anything to him. I mean who's George Reeves, right? But all the kids know Superman. If you told me as a kid that David Hasselhoff was coming for a visit I might have said "Hassle who?" But if you told me Michael Knight was coming you can bet I'd be one super excited kid!!! But just because you tell a kid that Michael Knight is coming over doesn't mean that he's a real person and that the KNIGHT RIDER universe is suddenly a part of my universe. As awesome as that might have been for a kid like me!

[Pahonu]

Ever hear about SNL writer Michael O’Donoghue’s never-aired sketch about Fred Silverman? It’s called “Last Ten Days in Silverman’s Bunker.” John Belushi was to play Fred Silverman.

The few Brockelman episodes I’ve watched bear little resemblance to Rockford’s ‘70s. Even latter-season Rockford retains its edge, but the Brockelman show is a different universe. Plus, the Brockelman theme is fun, whereas episode underscore is mostly pretty bad. I still like the character, though, and always I enjoy those episodes of TRF when Richie is teamed up with Jim. Imo most 1977-1980 TV is a depressing vaccuum. I thought so even as a (pretty clueless) child when shows like CHiPs, Sheriff Lobo, BJ and the Bear, The Dukes of Hazzard, et al., roamed broadcast television during my early childhood. I wouldn’t include Brockelman with those shows, but it’s far away from the type of early ‘70s tv series I loved then and now.

I’ve never heard of the SNL skit. Intriguing, to say the least! I nominate The Love Boat, Fantasy Island, and Battle of the Network Stars to be added to the vacuum! All were from his years at ABC. He had delivered great content for CBS earlier but struggled later at NBC. This must be the origin of the skit.

[Luther's nephew Dobie]

Pahonu wrote:
Like the episode Just Another Polish Wedding with Gandy and Gabby, this episode was another attempt at a back door pilot, I believe. This attempt at spinning off another show by creating new characters within a popular series had become quite common in the 70’s and 80’s...The champion of back door pilots was Happy Days, which not only spun off regular characters like Joanie and Chachi in the traditional method, but created the characters of Mork, and Laverne and Shirley in single episodes, then launched them into successful series.

Hi Pahonu,
I think you are right as to Happy Days being the King of Back Door pilots, as defined by you, by spinning off characters that appeared on it to start with.
The Danny Thomas Show begat Andy Griffith and the Bill Dana show, with characters spun off as you define them above. But the Danny Thomas Show was the undisputed
world wide king of existing in a Universe connected to other TV shows,11 series, including itself.
From the It Got By The Censor/In Jokes thread here at Magnum Mania:

1) The Danny Thomas Show
2) The Andy Griffith Show
3) Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.
4) Mayberry R.F.D.
5) Joey Bishop Show
6) The Bill Dana Show
7) The Dick Van Dyke Show
8 I Love Lucy
9) Superman
10) Private Secretary
11) Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour

In the episode "Lucy and Superman" of I Love Lucy, Superman (George Reeves) guest stars as himself, the Man of Steel. The producers didn't want to ruin the illusion for the millions of
kids tuning in and treated Superman as being for real. In "Lucy Takes a Cruise to Havana" from the Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour, Ann Southern appears as Susie McNamara, her role from Private Secretary.
Since Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour was indeed separate from I Love Lucy, I'm counting the above tie-ins as two more connected series.

Hey Dobie,

I'm a little confused by the idea that LUCY and SUPERMAN are part of the same TV universe. Just because Lucy tells Little Ricky that Superman is coming for his birthday doesn't mean that there really is a Superman in the world of I LOVE LUCY. It just means that Little Ricky watches Superman on TV (same as any other kid at the time) and idolizes the Man of Steel. Who knows? Maybe in the mind of Little Ricky Superman is real since he's just a little kid. It's just that if Lucy told Little Ricky that George Reeves is coming for his birthday that wouldn't mean anything to him. I mean who's George Reeves, right? But all the kids know Superman. If you told me as a kid that David Hasselhoff was coming for a visit I might have said "Hassle who?" But if you told me Michael Knight was coming you can bet I'd be one super excited kid!!! But just because you tell a kid that Michael Knight is coming over doesn't mean that he's a real person and that the KNIGHT RIDER universe is suddenly a part of my universe. As awesome as that might have been for a kid like me!

Hi Ivan,
I get the point you are making. But if we except the fictional as having their own Universe to exist in, we can't be logically literal minded. Because, well, they are fictional and different rules apply.
If in their Fictional Universe there is no actor George Reeves portraying Superman - despite Superman having a TV series - then Superman is real, they treat him as real in the story line.
Remember the famous quote from Jessica Rabbit? "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way."
The writers are the Creator of the Universe for these people and make the rules.
Ivan, I am going to start a new thread about this because I have a feeling the Rockford Mania fans are gritting their teeth at this tangent I started off on. Worse, I found a lot more additions
to the Danny Thomas Universe and I fear they will hire Gandolph Finch, Rockford's ex prison pal, to give me a tune up if I keep elaborating on it here.

[Pahonu]

Yes! I’m getting the Hammer of C Block to clean up this whole fictional universe business.

Seriously, I have no problem with you both discussing the topic. I’ve never been bothered by wide tangents in threads. I’ve certainly been guilty myself on occasion.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

If in their Fictional Universe there is no actor George Reeves portraying Superman - despite Superman having a TV series - then Superman is real, they treat him as real in the story line.

That's just the thing. Who's to say that there is no actor George Reeves portraying Superman in the LUCY universe? I'm pretty sure Little Ricky is familiar with Superman by watching him on the telly, not watching him flying outside his bedroom window. The latter really doesn't make any sense because LUCY was never presented as a fantasy universe. Also do we see Superman actually fly and land on the ledge to save Lucy in the episode? Nope. Because it's just actor George Reeves wearing his Superman costume. He can't fly.

[Little Garwood]

My Rockford Files (aka “Jim Rockford: Private Investigator” as it was known in syndication), childhood memories in one photo. This would have been starting in at least late 1979 and through the 1980s. The Rockford Files was part of a varying daytime detective and cop lineup that at one time or another included reruns of Cannon, Quincy, M.E., Barnaby Jones, Hawaii Five-0, and Police Woman.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

I remember the late 90s/early 2000s line-up of Streets of San Francisco at 8am, Rockford Files at 9am, and then Hawaii Five-O back to back at 10am and 11am.

I would watch Streets of SF while still in bed, then Rockford in the kitchen while making and eating breakfast, and then Five-O back in my room. Great times! That's on the days when I didn't have classes, of course. I was in college then. In fact I was in the middle of this routine when 9/11 happened. I didn't have classes that day and Rockford had just come on. I flipped a channel and saw what was unfolding. Needless to say I watched the news channels for the rest of that day.

But I first stumbled across "Jim Rockford: Private Investigator" (as it was called here in Philly too, as part of a different syndication package I guess than what I mentioned above) sometime in the mid-90s. But I can't say I was a fan then. I was transitioning from middle school to high school so my taste buds hadn't matured enough yet. I was still into KNIGHT RIDER and A-TEAM and stuff like that. Always liked FIVE-O though. It wasn't until I started college that I really got into the show and began to enjoy it.

[Little Garwood]

Your post reminds me once again that TV, like music and sense of smell, brings back the past with a stunning clarity.

Even as a kid in the late ‘70s-early ‘80s, TRF was among the few shows that left a huge positive impression. The look and feel of 1970s Los Angeles with its dark bars and restaurants and wildly varying architecture…Rockford was the world I knew, as the Vietnam/Watergate were just a few years prior but by 1976 seemed like an eternity ago. I was more aware of what are now referred to as the “Malaise” years, which were the early years of my early childhood.

I didn’t reconnect with Rockford and a lot of other fondly-remembered 1970s and (early) ‘80s shows until 2004, some twenty years after I had watched them with any regularity. When I caught up with Jimbo, the first episode I saw after that too-long sabbatical was “The Return of the Black Shadow” (season 5). As you know, Jim is barely even in that episode, as it’s primarily a Coop acooper episode! I would have to wait until the next day to get a “proper” Rockford story! Whenever I reconnect with a series I haven’t seen in many years, the first episode I run into is either the last episode I saw or I get a Two Birds of a Feather kind of episode, with virtually no screen time for the series lead.