Did You See the Sunrise? (2) (3.2)

[KENJI]

Great interview.....Sam gets credit for finding it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HsmOUMARVY

[KingKC]

So my friend and I got into a discussion. He claims that T.C., should have gone to jail for the crimes he committed via brainwashing... Also, had he killed anyone and gone through with it, he would be sentenced to life w.o parole or death. My argument was it was T.C. wasn't guilty of anything and had been drugged and brainwashed into commiting said crimes. Debriefing was only thing necessary. Had he killed and gone through with it? Possibly a different story, but still not 'guilty'.. Thoughts??

I know this is over three years old but it is part of something I always wonder about with TV being pretty much unrealistic.

The whole brainwashing issue comes down to the ability to form intent, or mens rea, which is the Latin term. TC in real life, depending on the state law, and I don't know what Hawaii law is or was, could get the charges reduced for diminished capacity in a plea bargain or could get reduced sentences with mitigating circumstances. Brainwashing might go so far as to preclude any charges but I highly doubt it. Even if prosecutors saw the torture as provocation then TC probably gets a charge of manslaughter. Again, every state is different and every prosecutor is different. There was something called the Stockholm Syndrome that Patty Hearst used by being kept in crude captivity and establishing an affinity with her captors. it didn't work for bank robbery so I doubt it would work for murder. One of the most ridiculous defenses ever used was the "twinkie" defense which is now prohibited. In San Francisco the Mayor and Harvey Milk were killed by a man who claimed junk food and sugar diminished his brain!

I also wondered how it looks, especially to those who live and breathe TV and do not always recognize the lack of reality on TV, when Magnum simply blows someone away and there is no follow-up criminal investigation.

[marlboro]

I also wondered how it looks, especially to those who live and breathe TV and do not always recognize the lack of reality on TV, when Magnum simply blows someone away and there is no follow-up criminal investigation.

Higgins wasn't Robin Masters. He was Perry Mason.

[Milton Collins]

Just watched for about the tenth time and yet again, absolute perfection! I think this is a top five episode of the entire series and embodies the show perhaps better than any other.

[MagnumILWU]

This episode is on most people's top ten list! The question is; could you air this episode now(as it was aired in 1982) with today's social climate?

[thechickinthemiddle]

Well the players would change undoubtedly, with the target probably making a lot more sense strategically than a Japanese prince or ambassador. I can see Greene or Hawkes not wanting to cause an international incident with the Chinese, especially since they have the largest army on Earth. Even back in 1982, a Chinese assassination target would have made more sense considering that by the Deng era the PRC had long split from the Soviets and had already started to thaw relations with the U.S.

Relating back to the question of the possible aftermath after the ending in the first part's forum, I agree that Hawkes and Greene would cover up Ivan's death considering how much even they hated him. In fact, there's a theory on Magnum's TV Tropes page stating that since his plan failed and he was identified as a Russian agent, the Soviets would probably have him killed themselves if they ever got a hold of him.

[magnum44]

and always when it's shown in the UK the ending is always cut when its shown on ITV4
Regards Andrew

[☨magnum.t]

I think the repercussions of killing Ivan would be very minimal if there were any at all. Plus it doesn't show just how far into the jungle Magnum takes him. I'm betting it was quite a ways in out of hearing range at least so the chances are there was never any evidence. It wouldn't surprise me if the hole was already dug even. Remember this was premeditated and planned out, the CIA has been doing stuff like this since they were formed and Magnum having done all types of Special Operations in Vietnam would have treated this just like any other mission. I Think it was in the episode one for all that Tyler informs everyone about how good Magnum is at search and destroy missions, the best he says. Now TC stealing a Helicopter and shooting up a reserve training mission that's a different story, that would take a pretty high level cover-up, but certainly possible, especially with Col. Greene not wanting any public attention what so ever.

[thechickinthemiddle]

Good point. Magnum killing Ivan is indeed a lot easier to hide than T.C. and his chopper, especially with T.C. still likely being on probation from "Thicker Than Blood".

[ENSHealy]

3.2 Did You See the Sunrise?
Hawaiian shirts: 0
Island Hopper shirts: 0
Body Count: 2, driver of the tan sedan? Ivan.
Shirtless: 0
Little Voice: 0
I know what you’re thinking: 0
When I write HTBAWCPI: 0
Investigator corrections: 0
Magnum gunshot wounds: 0
Higgins musings: 2
4th wall breaks: 1
Negotiations: 0
Famous guest stars: .5 James Whitmore, Jr.
Magnumometer: 5.5

Interesting that this episode scores so low on the Magnumometer, as it's clearly one of the best episodes of the series, but looking at the Magnumometer, most of the stuff I capture there is of the more light-hearted variety, so when they go "serious" it doesn't add up as much.

* When T.C. and Nuzo charge through the Reserves entrance in Rick’s car, we hear the tyres screeching on the ground. Maybe I’m wrong, but the tyres would surely only screech like that on concrete – the car is on a dirt track.

The same thing happens in Dr. No when Bond is being chased on the mountain road by the guys in the hearse. He's driving a two-door Sunbeam on a dirt track and the tires are squealing the whole way. Sometimes one does wish the producers gave the audiences a touch more credit.

The only real critique I have is that I wish that they could have found a way to get TC in the Loach without having Nuzo spraying gunfire at the reservists. It just doesn't sit right. I didn't add the reservists to the body count because we don't actually see any confirmed deaths, and that plot element just seemed too far-fetched to dignify it with legitimacy. Also, given the usual gunfire accuracy displayed by characters in the show not named Magnum, I think it can be safely assumed he didn't actually hit anyone.

And of course, like everyone, I want to know what they did with the limo driver and Ivan's body.

[karolis]

Another reverse image flub. As TC is flying the Loach toward the Valley of the Temples you can see in at least one shot that the word "MARINES" on the tail section is reversed, as if the negative were reversed.

Here's the screenshot:

Another nice find IH!

The Nuzo picture does kind of look like Tim Matheson, but I don't think it is. His nose looks a little different.



Unfortunately, I can't find any pictures of him from that movie! The best early pictures of him I can find are these:

from the TV series The Quest (1976)



and this one from Bonanza (1972)



Man, did you know he was in an episode of Leave It to Beaver and did voice work for Johnny Quest!? I had no idea he's been in showbiz that long!

There's most similar photo that i managed to find of Tim Matheson:

My bad, repost - wrong thread, 1 versus 2 ---- So I just re-watched one of my favorite TV Drama Episode's of all time ... The above entitled (It blew my socks off, as a kid) ... Sorry, if this has been addressed already, but is the Japanese Ambassador shown, John Hillerman - AKA "Higgins" ???

I don't think so:

Now TC stealing a Helicopter and shooting up a reserve training mission that's a different story, that would take a pretty high level cover-up, but certainly possible, especially with Col. Greene not wanting any public attention what so ever.

T.C. never shoots anyone during Helicopter theft, he was driving Mercedes while Nuzzo was shooting, and once T.C. was in the Holicopter - he didn't shoot.


Clearly Tom Selleck double here:




The computer Maggie uses is Teletype model 40:




I think Old Sugar Mill is seen in part 2 as well as in part 1 (Buck Gibson crashed the Ferrari near it in "Mad Buck Gibson episode, the location was found by Kudu buck):



http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic ... =45#p37834

Google Maps: https://www.google.lt/maps/place/Kealoh ... 58.1265498

[Milton Collins]

Another reverse image flub. As TC is flying the Loach toward the Valley of the Temples you can see in at least one shot that the word "MARINES" on the tail section is reversed, as if the negative were reversed.

Here's the screenshot:

Another nice find IH!

The Nuzo picture does kind of look like Tim Matheson, but I don't think it is. His nose looks a little different.



Unfortunately, I can't find any pictures of him from that movie! The best early pictures of him I can find are these:

from the TV series The Quest (1976)



and this one from Bonanza (1972)



Man, did you know he was in an episode of Leave It to Beaver and did voice work for Johnny Quest!? I had no idea he's been in showbiz that long!

There's most similar photo that i managed to find of Tim Matheson:

My bad, repost - wrong thread, 1 versus 2 ---- So I just re-watched one of my favorite TV Drama Episode's of all time ... The above entitled (It blew my socks off, as a kid) ... Sorry, if this has been addressed already, but is the Japanese Ambassador shown, John Hillerman - AKA "Higgins" ???

I don't think so:

Now TC stealing a Helicopter and shooting up a reserve training mission that's a different story, that would take a pretty high level cover-up, but certainly possible, especially with Col. Greene not wanting any public attention what so ever.

T.C. never shoots anyone during Helicopter theft, he was driving Mercedes while Nuzzo was shooting, and once T.C. was in the Holicopter - he didn't shoot.


Clearly Tom Selleck double here:




The computer Maggie uses is Teletype model 40:




I think Old Sugar Mill is seen in part 2 as well as in part 1 (Buck Gibson crashed the Ferrari near it in "Mad Buck Gibson episode, the location was found by Kudu buck):



http://magnum-mania.com/Forum/viewtopic ... =45#p37834

Google Maps: https://www.google.lt/maps/place/Kealoh ... 58.1265498

Was that also used as the mill in season 3's Foiled Again?

[Milton Collins]

I LOVE this episode but have a small flaw to point out:

So if Ivan was more or less being deported and everyone involved knew the past and recent history between he and Magnum AND if the driver could identify Rick and his car, wouldn't it be EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that it was TM who killed Ivan? Don't get me wrong, I hated Ivan and loved the ending but just feel like it couldn't happen without him being investigated and arrested for murder.

Maybe I should just enjoy and not think too hard on this lol! Great episode a 10 in my book!

[K Hale]

I LOVE this episode but have a small flaw to point out:

So if Ivan was more or less being deported and everyone involved knew the past and recent history between he and Magnum AND if the driver could identify Rick and his car, wouldn't it be EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that it was TM who killed Ivan? Don't get me wrong, I hated Ivan and loved the ending but just feel like it couldn't happen without him being investigated and arrested for murder.

Maybe I should just enjoy and not think too hard on this lol! Great episode a 10 in my book!

I think it's been mentioned before that the government may have been tacitly approving of what Magnum did and even complicit in hiding the body.

[Milton Collins]

I LOVE this episode but have a small flaw to point out:

So if Ivan was more or less being deported and everyone involved knew the past and recent history between he and Magnum AND if the driver could identify Rick and his car, wouldn't it be EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that it was TM who killed Ivan? Don't get me wrong, I hated Ivan and loved the ending but just feel like it couldn't happen without him being investigated and arrested for murder.

Maybe I should just enjoy and not think too hard on this lol! Great episode a 10 in my book!

I think it's been mentioned before that the government may have been tacitly approving of what Magnum did and even complicit in hiding the body.

Wow great point now that I think about it you must be right! Thank you K Hale!