Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

Message

#1 Post by **J.J. Walters** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:13 pm

This is the official MM thread for Never Again ... Never Again (1.7). All discussions and reviews for this episode should go here. If you wish to rate the episode, please do so with the poll. The avg. score will be the official 'community rating', which will be used on the episode page (updated monthly).

This thread is also linked in the episode page of the Episode Guide.

Original Air Date: 1/22/1981
When Saul and Lena, and older couple who run a local shop, abruptly make plans to leave town, Magnum and Rick become suspicious and decide to investigate. After Saul suffers a heart attack and disappears from the hospital, Lena confesses to Magnum that they are Holocaust survivors being hunted by Neo-Nazis. Magnum and Rick must now work together to save Saul in time.

#2 Post by **J.J. Walters** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:54 pm

Best plot twist of the entire series!

#3 Post by **Doc Ibold** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:00 pm

Plus, it allowed Glenn Cannon to die and come back as the greatest character of all time!

Woo hoo!

I can't even say that with a straight face.....

I agree James, it was a REALLY good twist at the end. MUCH Better executed than the one in "Under World".

Any other good twists you can think of?

IslandHopper · #4 Post by **IslandHopper** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:20 am

Doc Ibold wrote:I agree James, it was a REALLY good twist at the end. MUCH Better executed than the one in "Under World".

Any other good twists you can think of?

"Did You See The Sunrise" had a pretty good twist with the Soviets planting the their agent as Nuzzo, who was allowed to escape with Magnum and TC, who activated TC 10 years later with the use of laced chewing gum in order to get him to attempt to assassinate the Japanese Ambassador. That was very clever.

#5 Post by **J.J. Walters** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:08 pm

Does anyone happen to recall whether or not there was a gunshot at the end of this episode (immediately after the climactic confrontation b/t Magnum and Lena, during the last shot of the boat on the water) in the original broadcast? If not, what a strange way to end the scene! The scene builds up all this tension, Lena still hasn't dropped the scalpel, and you just cut to the boat ... then nothing?!

#6 Post by **Doc Ibold** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:13 pm

I don't recall anything like that.

I remember it going down pretty much as you recall, James.

I always assumed Magnum got her to drop the scalpel and had her sent away for war crimes.

#7 Post by **J.J. Walters** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:36 am

The only reason I mention it (I didn't see the original broadcast myself) is because it has been brought up before, on the old A&E forum I believe. Some people swear they heard a gunshot in the original broadcast. Now, why they would feel the need to remove the gunshot for syndication is beyond me. They certainly aired a lot more controversial stuff than shooting an ex-Nazi.

It's weird though, I just watched it again and it certainly doesn't seem like Lena would surrender; her expression, her tone, the music. In any event, Hanna Hertelendy did a great job with this scene. She's downright creepy as this character!

IslandHopper · #8 Post by **IslandHopper** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:00 am

I haven't seen this episode in a while, but I seem to remember a close-up of Lena with her grimacing, leering and tightening her face, showing her teeth as if a cornered Lioness ready to pounce in desparation just before the camera cuts to Magnum. Because of her facial expression and look of desperation, I always assumed Lena was prepared to die (especially since her husband had just died), so she lunged at Magnum with the scalpel and he was forced to shoot her. Of course, we don't see all of this, but I believe her contorted facial expression was in a way foreshadowing what was ultimately going to happen. . . her demise.

I don't ever remember hearing a gun shot at the end of this episode like we did in "Did You See The Sunrise." I don't know for sure, but I don't believe there ever was a gun shot. If there was, then the ending of "Did You See The Sunrise" wouldn't have been as shocking and memorable. You could always make the argument that it would still be shocking because Ivan was unarmed, but I think it would have been much more shocking had Magnum shot and killed a woman, even a woman lunging at him with a scalpel. We just aren't used to seeing that on television, at least not in the 80s. The only woman I remember being killed on MPI is Kacy from "Wave Goodbye" and her death wasn't actually shown in the episode.

#9 Post by **J.J. Walters** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:00 pm

IslandHopper wrote:You could always make the argument that it would still be shocking because Ivan was unarmed, but I think it would have been much more shocking had Magnum shot and killed a woman, even a woman lunging at him with a scalpel. We just aren't used to seeing that on television, at least not in the 80s. The only woman I remember being killed on MPI is Kacy from "Wave Goodbye" and her death wasn't actually shown in the episode.

Well, there was also Katrina Tremaine in "Italian Ice" (by Magnum), "Legs" in "Faith and Begorrah" (tossed off a lighthouse!), Rick's sister Wendy in "Distant Relative" (murdered by drug dealers), Diane in "Echoes of the Mind" (suicide), the little girl's mother in "Blind Justice" (domestic violence) and Michelle in "Unfinished Business" (car bomb).

But you're right, it may have been a bit much (in 1981) to have Magnum kill a female senior citizen on a boat, even if she was an armed deranged murderer and a former Nazi!

Maybe Magnum simply tackled her and unarmed her?

#10 Post by **Doc Ibold** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:46 pm

James J. Walters wrote:
IslandHopper wrote:You could always make the argument that it would still be shocking because Ivan was unarmed, but I think it would have been much more shocking had Magnum shot and killed a woman, even a woman lunging at him with a scalpel. We just aren't used to seeing that on television, at least not in the 80s. The only woman I remember being killed on MPI is Kacy from "Wave Goodbye" and her death wasn't actually shown in the episode.
Well, there was also Katrina Tremaine in "Italian Ice" (by Magnum), "Legs" in "Faith and Begorrah" (tossed off a lighthouse!), Rick's sister Wendy in "Distant Relative" (murdered by drug dealers), Diane in "Echoes of the Mind" (suicide), the little girl's mother in "Blind Justice" (domestic violence) and Michelle in "Unfinished Business" (car bomb).

But you're right, it may have been a bit much (in 1981) to have Magnum kill a female senior citizen on a boat, even if she was an armed deranged murderer and a former Nazi!

Maybe Magnum simply tackled her and unarmed her?

James,

You SURE Katrina died at the end of Italian Ice? I think he just got the gun from here and hugged Margo because everyone in the acting class thought is was a scene.

IslandHopper · #11 Post by **IslandHopper** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:08 am

Thanks James for reminding me of the other women who have been killed on the show. I don't know how I forgot about Diane, Wendy and Legs.

Doc is right about Katrina. She wasn't killed, Magnum merely walked up to her and coaxed the gun from her. She wasn't even hurt despite having shot Higgins earlier in the episode.

As far as Lena is concerned, I do believe that Magnum shot and killed her despite the fact that there was no gunshot heard. As I mentioned, I just don't think the director wanted to portray her death in detail. It wasn't necessary as she seemed ready to die from her facial expressions and demeanor. The fact that we don't see her die is reminiscent of Alfred Hitchcock.

#12 Post by **J.J. Walters** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:25 pm

Chalk up another flub for James! Not sure why I thought Magnum shot Katrina!

In any event, I think you are right about the Magnum/Lena scene IH. The denouement also seems to support the idea that Magnum had to have killed her - He's clearly upset and Higgins' Nuremburg Trials speech.

#13 Post by **Doc Ibold** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:52 am

Looking over all the arguments to support the "Magnum shot Lena" theory, I'm going to have to agree.

Watched that scene in particular and Lena's face pretty much said she wasn't going quietly, even more so since Saul was dead.

As for the "flub", James, don't worry about it. You have so much knowledge about the show, its nuts!

Besides, whenever you go into your chess explanations, I stare at the screen a little bit, get confused, and then go to my little "happy place" in my mind.

rubber chicken · #14 Post by **rubber chicken** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:56 am

Here's the home of Sol & Lena Greenberg, just a few blocks from the Hawaii Film Studio.

Saul's Shirt Shop - Expert Tailering (3573 Waialae Avenue - seventh one from the building to the right of the basketball courts).

The Makani Kai Marina is where Sol was held on the boat.

#15 Post by **J.J. Walters** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:12 pm

Cool, thanks RC!

Do I want to know how you found Saul and Lena's house? No, it's probably best you didn't tell me!

Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)

How Would You Rate This Episode?

Never Again ... Never Again (1.7)