Magnum's .45

[zendragon]

Does anyone know if Magnum used a 1911 Mil Spec .45 or a Series 70?

[IslandHopper]

It looks like a 1911 model to me. I always thought it was a 1911 model. That's what we had when I was in the military, and is what TM would have used in the military as well.

[zendragon]

It looks like a 1911 model to me. I always thought it was a 1911 model. That's what we had when I was in the military, and is what TM would have used in the military as well.

That's what I would bet on too, but the 1911 milspec was military issued, so the question is did he take his home, or would have have picked up a series 70 1911 which were produced for civilian use starting in the 70's?

Same basic gun with different info on the slide

[MaximRecoil]

Does anyone know if Magnum used a 1911 Mil Spec .45 or a Series 70?

It was a Colt Government Model (CGM). Without seeing the markings on the gun or seeing it disassembled, it is impossible to tell whether it was a pre-Series 70 or a Series 70 CGM. It is even possible that in the later shows ('83 or after) that is was a Series 80 CGM. At the time the show started however, if you bought a brand new CGM, it would have been a Series 70. If you bought a used one, it might have been a pre-Series 70 CGM (the Series 70 was introduced in 1971). Prior to the Series 70, there was no "series" for the CGM—it was simply known as a Colt Government Model.

The only difference aside from the markings, between a pre-Series 70 and a Series 70 CGM is a collet-finger type "Accurizer" barrel bushing along with a barrel that has a slightly larger outside diameter near the muzzle to work properly with the "Accurizer" barrel bushing.

I emailed some information on this topic to this site's owner last night, and since it is relevant to this thread, I may as well post it here:

Your page says:

"His weapon of choice for self-defense is the M1911A1 (45 caliber)
semi-automatic handgun"

In common-speak, guns of the M1911 or M1911A1 variety are usually simply called "1911", but strictly speaking, only the military-issued ones were M1911s and M1911A1s, as those are military designations. The last of these were manufactured for the U.S. military in 1945, and remained the official sidearm until 1985 (at which point they were pretty well beaten and battered given that the newest ones were 40 years old by then).

Magnum's gun was not a military-issued M1911A1, but rather, it was a Colt Government Model, which was Colt's commercial/civilian version of the M1911 and M1911A1.

Originally, the only differences between a Colt Government Model and a military M1911 or M1911A1 were the markings and the type of finish. Evolution of the military guns stopped in 1945 of course, but it continued on in the Colt Government Model. The refinements that took place over the years were minor and did not affect parts interchangeability between a Colt Government Model and an M1911 or M1911A1.

In the case of Magnum's Colt Government Model, if I had to guess, I would say it was manufactured in the 1970s. The main differences between Magnum's CGM and a military M1911A1 are as follows:

- Lowered ejection port
- No lanyard loop on the bottom of the mainspring housing
- Full-shelf thumb safety (half-shelf thumb safety on M1911A1s)
- Polished blued finish (matte parkerized finish on M1911A1s)
- Blued barrel with chamber hood left "in the white" (completely blued
barrel and chamber hood on M1911A1s)
- Blued hammer with the sides left "in the white" (completely parkerized
hammer on M1911A1s)

Another interesting thing about Magnum's gun is, even though it was intended to be a .45 ACP (as stated numerous times in various episodes), the onscreen gun was actually a 9mm NATO or .38 Super, or at the very least, the magazines were. 9mm and .38 Super magazines for 1911-type pistols have a vertical groove stamped into them on either side, while .45 ACP magazines do not. The purpose of these grooves is to decreased the inner width of the magazine so the cartridges do not rattle back and forth (9mm and .38 Super cartridges are smaller diameter than .45 ACP cartridges and are too narrow for a magazine designed to accomodate a .45 ACP cartridge, so the problem was solved with adding the grooves).

The M1911 was designed specifically for the .45 ACP cartridge, and the .45 ACP cartridge was designed specifically for the M1911, so in order to chamber it for other cartridges such as 9mm or .38 Super, some retrofitting had to be done.

You can see the grooves in the magazine in the opening sequence of Magnum P.I. when he inserts a magazine into his CGM and slams it home, as well as in various other scenes throughout the series.

And another thing; it shows him with a CGM in various Vietnam flashback scenes. This may seem like a mistake, given that you'd expect he'd have had a military-issued M1911 or M1911A1 when he was in Vietnam, rather than a commercial CGM. However, such a thing is plausible. Some soldiers were known to buy their own handguns as a backup weapon in Vietnam, particularly soldiers who were not normally issued a sidearm. The Smith & Wesson Model 60 (stainless steel version of the Model 36 Chief's Special, and the first all stainless steel handgun ever produced) was particularly popular due to its compact size (it was a 5-shot .38 "snubbie") and inherent rust-resistance of stainless steel.

In Magnum's case, being a SEAL, I'm sure he could have been issued a standard M1911 or M1911A1 if he'd wanted it, but perhaps he preferred to buy a new CGM, given that by the late '60s/early '70s, even the newest .45s that the military had were ~25 years old and mostly well-worn; not to mention the tendency of military armorers to disassemble a bunch of .45s at a time and dump all the parts into a cleaning solution, and then reassemble them without regard to which parts originally went with which guns, resulting in an even bigger sloppy mess of a pistol than would be caused by normal wear & tear alone.

As a matter of fact, I talked to one Vietnam veteran in the early '90s who claimed to have a Colt Government Model .38 Super that he mailed home from Vietnam one piece at a time. Such a gun was obviously not military issue.

[J.J. Walters]

Hello MaximRecoil! Welcome to the site!

Thanks for the GREAT info on Magnum's gun! You definitely sound like you know your stuff. Pending any evidence to the contrary, the Colt Government Model .45 ACP it is! I've updated the 'Main Characters' page, and added it to the 'Trivia' page, as well.

Thanks again!

[MaximRecoil]

Hello MaximRecoil! Welcome to the site!

Thanks. It is a great site.

Here is another thing:



The two screenshots are from the same scene in episode 8.11 (Transitions). Now, I know that the respective angles of the two guns and the respective distances of the two guns from the camera are not exactly comparable here, but they are pretty close.

What I noticed in this scene is that the bore of the woman's gun seems slightly larger (relative to the rest of her gun) than the bore of Magnum's gun does (relative to the rest of his gun).

Both guns are Colts of the 1911 type, so their external dimensions are identical, but differing calibers can result in different bore sizes of course.

Now I've always suspected that Magnum actual on-screen gun was actually a .38 Super or 9mm because whenever the magazine for it is shown, it is always a .38 Super or 9mm magazine. However, you can slide a 1911-type .38 Super or 9mm magazine into a .45 ACP 1911-type gun just fine if you want to, so that, in and of itself, doesn't prove that the gun is also a .38 Super or 9mm just because the magazine is.

These two screenshots lend further credence to my theory that Magnum's CGM is actually a .38 Super or 9mm, and here is why:

The woman's gun is definitely a Colt Delta Elite. All Colt Delta Elites are chambered for 10mm auto, which uses a .400" bore. The bore for 9mm NATO and .38 Super is .355" (.045" smaller than a 10mm bore). The bore for .45 ACP is .451" (.051" larger than a 10mm bore and .096" larger than a 9mm bore).

So given that Magnum's gun's bore appears slightly smaller than the woman's gun's bore (or at least, definitely not larger like a .45 ACP bore would be); I would say the Magnum's CGM is most likely a .38 Super or 9mm, which makes plenty of sense given that the magazines for his gun are definitely .38 Super or 9mm.

Now getting back to the M1911A1 vs. Colt Government Model issue which I discussed in my previous post, I figured I would illustrate why Magnum's gun is a CGM rather than a military-issue M1911A1 with some pictures.

In this first image, there are two screen shots showing Magnum's pistol from both sides, and I've labeled the parts that identify it as a CGM rather than a military-issue M1911A1:



This next image shows both sides of a standard military-issue M1911A1:

[Sam]

Hi MR,

Welcome to the forum.
I found this pic on a blog.I don't know if they claiming that the guns pictured are the actual guns carried in the movies or TV. Not a great pic.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_7PbGEP1owXc/RkA ... istols.jpg

Blog page.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DX

[MaximRecoil]

Hi MR,

Welcome to the forum.
I found this pic on a blog.I don't know if they claiming that the guns pictured are the actual guns carried in the movies or TV. Not a great pic.

Actually that is a great picture. Awesome find. The reason the picture is great is because it identifies the model of the gun on the card beneath the pistol, and it says:

Colt Mark IV Series 70 [text obscured]
Model Carried by Tom
Selleck in the TV Series
"Magnum PI"

The "text obscured" part no doubt says "Government", given that Series 70s are Government Models, as you can see in this picture of a random Series 70 (it says "Colt's Mark IV/Series 70 Government Model" on the slide). I only wish it said what the caliber was of the Magnum PI gun in that collection.

As I've said before, his gun was probably a Series 70 CGM and as far as I'm concerned, this confirms it (I already knew it was a CGM for sure, but could only guess as to whether it was a pre-Series 70 or Series 70 since you never see the markings on it, nor do you ever see it disassembled).

[IKnowWhatYoureThinking]

Maxim, I am amazed at your knowledge with this subject. There is no way I could have put this all together in a million years!

[ConchRepublican]

Maxim, I am amazed at your knowledge with this subject. There is no way I could have put this all together in a million years!

I agree! Methinks Maxim has been on the right side of a hand gun for a while.