The Estate Tidal Pool and Beach

[Sam]

Actually T, sea walls and shore breaks are the cause of the erosion.
If a wave is allowed to roll out to the natural extension,it deposits the sand.
Interrupted, the sand gets pulled back out to sea.

A good example of this is Waikiki Beach.Sand was hauled in to make the beach and as tourism increased more sand was added to enlarge the beach area.In effect,the beach is a shore break.

Over the years they've had to pump sand from offshore to replenish the beach.

Here's an article that explains the erosion process.

http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/SEAGRANT/CEaBLiH.html

This link is about the sand on Waikiki.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2007/0 ... ory03.html

[Styles Bitchley]

Thor, are you sure this isn't just natural washing out from the waves? I remember a similar thread from a while ago where we were chatting about this very thing. Someone had posted photos that showed the foundation of the wall being visible because the sand had gotten so low.

The sand must have been shipped in at some point. Maybe it's just going back to its natural state? Just a thought from a Haole.

[Thorfinn]

Thor, are you sure this isn't just natural washing out from the waves? I remember a similar thread from a while ago where we were chatting about this very thing. Someone had posted photos that showed the foundation of the wall being visible because the sand had gotten so low.

The sand must have been shipped in at some point. Maybe it's just going back to its natural state? Just a thought from a Haole.

First of all, the tidal pool was originally a turtle nursery hence that big concrete block that Thomas tried to eyeball those those 2 Swedish stewardesses in the pilot. In the last 20 years or so and because on the lava rock walls, there just wasn't a lot of wave action in the tidal pool. That's why I always took my grandkids there because it was absolutely safe. It is affected by tidal action though...at high tide the lava rocks making up the wall are barely visible (this was when TM would do his swimming) and during low tide they were quite noticeable. Please remember, I was there just 2-3 weeks earlier and all was fine.

[Tralfaz]

Sam I don't disagree with your articles but they don't consider the effect of the outer tidal pool walls and how that effect the wave energy and it's ability to move sand.


I am not going to pretend I understand the dynamic effect, but the fact is that there was an increasing amount of sand against the retaining wall.

I do personally feel that the outer walls might hinder the removal of sand. A strong wave energy may get material over the wall, but a receding wave would draw the material low and it may get trapped my the outer wall, but that is my gut.

Regardless...

In the 'After Dredging' (alleged any way) photo the level of the beach relative to the retaining wall is within 12" or so of where it was in photos/screencaps from the show, and in all the recent pictures, and my visit in 08 the sand was higher. Where did this extra sand come from?

Best

T

[PhatCat]

I fail to see why we all care so much about the sand level. So it's down now. I'm sure it will build back up again over time. I see no reason to alert the authorities or try to create drama over this.

Just one man's opinion. Maybe I'm missing the boat on this.

???

[Thorfinn]

I fail to see why we all care so much about the sand level. So it's down now. I'm sure it will build back up again over time. I see no reason to alert the authorities or try to create drama over this.

Just one man's opinion. Maybe I'm missing the boat on this.

???

First of all, we locals used this beach sometimes 3-4 times a month and many times even more. Many times the local young kids from Waimanalo would swim here and now it is gone and won't be back for decades if then. Hawaii owns the beaches and the State clearly tries to keep the beachfront homeowners from preventing access to the beach and/or defacing our beaches in any way.

I also take exception to the comment of the 'After Dredging' (alleged any way) photo. I took those photos this last Sunday morning and as I said many times during the course of this discussion, I was there a little over 2 weeks ago. There was no alleged about it so as of this moment, I am through with this thread. If you require further proof..come over and look for yourself.

[PhatCat]

Woah, easy Thor. I believe you. It was dredged. Never said it wasn't.

If it's illegal to dredge, go for it. Prosecute to the full extent of the law.

However, I can't say I see much harm done.

Aren't the kids still able to swim there? Won't the sand make its way back up over time? If little kids are learning to swim isn't shallow water better?

I'm asking this as a neophyte to Hawaiian beaches so sorry if this is stupidly obvious to you locals.

Sincerely,

Bill Radintz

[Thorfinn]

Woah, easy Thor. I believe you. It was dredged. Never said it wasn't.

If it's illegal to dredge, go for it. Prosecute to the full extent of the law.

However, I can't say I see much harm done.

Aren't the kids still able to swim there? Won't the sand make its way back up over time? If little kids are learning to swim isn't shallow water better?

I'm asking this as a neophyte to Hawaiian beaches so sorry if this is stupidly obvious to you locals.

Sincerely,

Bill Radintz

Sorry if I implied it was you who made that "alleged..." comment. I was actually answering 2 comments at once and that term ALLEGED set me off so should have made that clearer. Since the tidal pool never got much wave action...it will take longer than 30 years or more for the little beach at the estate to return to normal and no, the kids will now have to move down the beach to swim. The tidal pool is now too shallow for any activities but wading little tykes and the lava rocks are strewn all over the place now...caught her on camera doing this.

[Tralfaz]

Didn't mean to upset you with my term, but the fact of the matter is, to me it is alleged. (Asserted to be true)

It would be irresponsible to simply assume that anything one says is gospel and as such I was qualifying my statement on the dredging.

No disrespect was intended.

T

[Lily]

Haven’t posted on here for a long while but this thread has certainly caught my eye. As some of you might remember, because I was interested in the history of the tidal pool, last year while on Oahu I did some research into government records in Honolulu. It showed there was a storm drain easement running from the Koolau Mountain side, through the Estate with outlet going into the tidal pool in the same area as the concrete slab we see today.

Thorfinn, the tidal pool was indeed a turtle nursery, but the concrete slab could not have played any part in its operation, since it was built long after the days of the initial pool.

Re the removal of the sand, I tend to think along the same lines as Tralfaz, as there has always been a big problem with the sand encroaching on the main beach steps to the Estate. We have been visiting for the past eight years and there have been some years when the steps have looked like a sand dune.

From looking at the pictures, I personally don’t think the removal of sand has hurt the appearance of the beach in any way, although the thought of the sand being legally dumped into the tidal pool is totally questionable. One has to wonder though what the depth of the pool might have been when first built so long ago? Perhaps Mrs. Anderson knows something we don’t?

Would just like to add here that when we passed by this February, we saw that the old boat house gate had been replaced with the current white abomination one sees in Thorfinn’s pictures. No cheaper gate could have been made since its just plastic piping – maybe of the plumbing type. An utter eyesore as is the peeling paint from a visible chimney and a boarded up window on the main house overlooking the ocean. As usual, one comes away wondering just why this wonderful property has been left to utterly deteriorate.

[Thorfinn]

Well, for all you folks ought to come over now and see the area in question. I see it all the time and will not comment further. Just come and see for yourself.

[Pahonu]

I'm not so sure about all of this. I'm no expert, but I've lived in several places along the coast of Southern California: Santa Monica, Malibu, Santa Barbara. and now Long Beach, and have seen the sand level vary by as much as three to five feet from just one season to another! I understand the tropics are different from more temperent regions, but these kinds of tidal deposits or errosion can happen in very short time, though perhaps not frequently. I recall locals in Malibu talking about the winter of '93 being incredibly wet and causing five+ feet of sand errosion in some places. I remember the beach opposite PCH at the city hall building dropping by so much you could see the rough portions of the caissons which hold up the water-front structures (which went thirty feet into the sand) above the sand. The staircases which went to sand-level (and below) just weeks earlier were three+ foot drops to the sand. By the summer, the sand was back to normal or higher. Something very similar happened at Coal Oil Point in Goleta near UCSB when I lived there in '95. Here in Long Beach, the city spends weeks adding sand after El Nino years, but other years the beach is extremely wide. Just my two cents. I could be way off in terms of the tropics and beach patterns, but I have lived for about twenty years along the coast and have seen some pretty amazing things in that time.

By the way, Thorfinn, I am absolutely on board with the concept of public beach access. The California Coastal Commission has had some big fights with private homeowners over coastal access here including some big name celebrities. Some owners have even resorted to using ATV roaming security guards to shoo people away (illegally)! Hopefully Hawaii has some similarly aggressive government body when it comes to protecting citizens beach access. I love when they stick it to them and demand access or even reversal of private changes to the coast, but is it possible that natural causes were a part of this?

[Steve]

Well, for all you folks ought to come over now and see the area in question. I see it all the time and will not comment further. Just come and see for yourself.

I for one, Thor, appreciate your report and understand completely your concern over a private citizen's tampering with the people of Hawaii's access to the beaches and ocean. It does seem to me (IMHO) that the Dowager Lady Anderson's concern was with the fans climbing up on the seawall and taking pictures of her property as seen by all of the rocks she has put along the wall now. I hope you keep us updated any changes to the property, whether it be for the bad, or hopefully, for the good. I was wondering also since you liver there, if you have heard if she is letting The Estate be used for any more fiming such as with the new Hawaii 5-0 coming this fall.

[Thorfinn]

Well, for all you folks ought to come over now and see the area in question. I see it all the time and will not comment further. Just come and see for yourself.

I for one, Thor, appreciate your report and understand completely your concern over a private citizen's tampering with the people of Hawaii's access to the beaches and ocean. It does seem to me (IMHO) that the Dowager Lady Anderson's concern was with the fans climbing up on the seawall and taking pictures of her property as seen by all of the rocks she has put along the wall now. I hope you keep us updated any changes to the property, whether it be for the bad, or hopefully, for the good. I was wondering also since you liver there, if you have heard if she is letting The Estate be used for any more fiming such as with the new Hawaii 5-0 coming this fall.

Haven't heard, but will comment when I do. I really doubt it though unless the money is overwhelming.

[J.J. Walters]

Ah, I see now. I didn't realize that the sand was up so high on the sea wall(s) and steps. The lowered water depth of the tidal pool is a bummer, though.