Did You See the Sunrise? (2) (3.2)

[J.J. Walters]

This is the official MM thread for Did You See the Sunrise? (2) (3.2). All discussions and reviews for this episode should go here. If you wish to rate the episode, please do so with the poll. The avg. score will be the official 'community rating', which will be used on the episode page (updated monthly).

This thread is also linked in the episode page of the Episode Guide.

Original Air Date: 9/30/1982
As Magnum, T.C., and Nuzo plan to get to Ivan before he kills them, the Navy – inparticular Colonel Greene and Admiral Hawkes – have their own concerns and questions regarding Mac's death. But things are not as previously thought about Nuzo, and not only is T.C.'s life in great danger, but many other people's too, namely a Japanese prince.

[J.J. Walters]

An unexpected, shocking end highlights this well written, tight, excitement-filled episode. Probably the most famous ending of the entire series. Does the end justify the means?

I still vividly recall watching this episode as a pre-teenager when it originally aired. I think my jaw was on the floor for a good five or six minutes. Blew....Me....Away! It may seem like nothing in today's TV age, but back then this was shocking stuff with a capital S!

[Shermy]

Great ending, and one that was echoed a few months later in the Bronson classic, 10 to Midnight.

This was one of my favorite episodes as a kid, primarily because it featured one of the coolest songs I had ever heard. Anyone know if they actually used the Stones' version during the initial run, or if it was always a stock cover?

[J.J. Walters]

The "T.C.'s Rank" flub has been removed from the episode guide. Several knowledgable fans have emailed me, highlighting the inaccuracy of it - T.C. could very well be a Warrant Officer in 'Nam, and a Lieutenant in the Reserves. And it wouldn't be unusual for that to happen.

Thanks

[IslandHopper]

The "T.C.'s Rank" flub has been removed from the episode guide. Several knowledgable fans have emailed me, highlighting the inaccuracy of it - T.C. could very well be a Warrant Officer in 'Nam, and a Lieutenant in the Reserves. And it wouldn't be unusual for that to happen.

Thanks

Yes, it is very possible that TC later received a commission to a 2nd Lieutenant after he returned from Vietnam, as we discussed on June 13 & 14 under the episode "The Look" (season 4). However, I thought the flub was the fact that Maggie referred to TC as a Warrant Officer and then in the same episode, as TC and Nuzzo were driving to commandeer the Marine Helicopter, the Marine Sentry referred to TC as "Lieutenant Calvin." The thinking at the time was that since Maggie is all about facts and would have had access to TC's DD214, she would have known his correct rank and would have referred to him by his correct rank. So, the flub should be the fact that TC was referred to as a Warrant Officer and a Lieutenant in the same episode.

[J.J. Walters]

Ugh, my bad memory strikes again! I totalled forgot this was discussed in The Look thread.

Refresh my memory, would a DD214 file also show "Reserves" data? Even if it did, couldn't it be possible, since they were just discussing T.M. & T.C.'s Vietnam involvement, and the "files" that Maggie was looking at were wartime-related, that Maggie simply addressed T.C. by his Vietnam-era service rank (Warrant Officer)?

[IslandHopper]

Ugh, my bad memory strikes again! I totalled forgot this was discussed in The Look thread.

Refresh my memory, would a DD214 file also show "Reserves" data? Even if it did, couldn't it be possible, since they were just discussing T.M. & T.C.'s Vietnam involvement, and the "files" that Maggie was looking at were wartime-related, that Maggie simply addressed T.C. by his Vietnam-era service rank (Warrant Officer)?

No worries James.

Yes, everyone in the United States Armed Forces has a DD214, whether they are active duty or reservists. A service member's DD214 stays with them even when they go from active duty to the reserves. As we dicussed before in "The Look" thread, the DD214 is very important as it is a record of all significant information pertaining to that particular service member, i.e., rank, pay grade, awards, medals, ribbons, MOS, military schools attended, duty stations, overseas duty, etc.

It is possible that Maggie when referring to TC as a Warrant Officer was referring to his rank in Vietnam, but this is unlikely, because as I stated in the "Look" thread, how did Maggie even know TC was a Warrant Officer in the Marines? I don't know of any social friendship between Maggie and TC, so she must have looked at his DD214, which would include his most current rank, i.e., Warrant Officer (or Lieutenant). And since Maggie is known for her accuracy, I would think that the rank she refers to is TC's actual rank.

I have copied and pasted a portion of my post from 6/14/07 (The Look):


Doc Ibold wrote:
Wouldn't the armed forces share records of reservists?


Doc, you are right. TC as a member of the Marine Reserves would be in the same data base as active duty Marines. Like active duty Marines, Reservists also have DD214's and are paid by the Federal Treasury, just like their active duty counterparts.

Although this debate could easily go either way, my instinct is that the dual reference to TC as a Warrant Officer and a Lieutenant is a flub, becasue how did Maggie even know TC was a Warrant Officer in the Marines? I don't know of any social friendship between Maggie and TC, so she must have looked at his DD214, which would include his rank of Warrant Officer (or Lieutenant).

If in fact TC did receive a commission to 2nd Lieutenant, and so on, then that rank would also be included on his DD214. The DD214 is the most important record(s) a member of the military can have. DD214's contain the history of the particular member's service in the military, i.e., rank, pay grade (current and past), medals, ribbons, and other awards received, military schools attended, duty stations, etc. Therefore, if Maggie had access to TC's DD214, she would have known TC's correct rank and presumably would have referred to him as the appropriate rank (warrant officer or Lieutenant).

[J.J. Walters]

Ah, that does make sense, IH. A rare flub for Maggie!

I've re-added the flub.

Thanks

[IslandHopper]

I'm not sure if this observation belongs in Part 1 or Part 2, but the scene in question takes place when TC is driving Magnum to his house to meet Nuzzo. Magnum is looking in TC's glove-box and finds TC's revolver (looks like a .38 or .357), and Magnum says something like "Hey TC you're only supposed to have this when you're on military maneuvers with the Marines." I remember seeing this several times and didn't think too much of it until I noticed that the handgun is a revolver, not a military issue .45. The military doesn't issue revolvers, so this must be TC's personal weapon. The interesting thing about this is that Magnum's comment that TC is not supposed to have a handgun expect when he is on military maneuvers may be because of TC's felony conviction for smuggling in "Thicker Than Blood" and may be a condition of his probation.

I never understood why the writers went as far as they did in "Thicker Than Blood" with TC's conviction for smuggling, because in reality he would have been kicked out of the Marines and would certainly not have been able to maintain a security clearance. He probably would have lost his civilian pilot's license as well. I imagine that is why we never heard much of it after that episode. But it is interesting to see subtle references to TC's probation as with the restriction with his handgun. I also believe, his conviction and probation may have been the reason why we don't see TC drink alcohol for the remainder of the series. I know an argument can be made that Mad Buck Gibson bought TC a Bazooka in Season 2, but I don't think TC actually drank it. I think TC accepted the drink so as not to offend Mad Buck, as TC wanted Mad Buck to read and edit his novel.

[IslandHopper]

Another reverse image flub. As TC is flying the Loach toward the Valley of the Temples you can see in at least one shot that the word "MARINES" on the tail section is reversed, as if the negative were reversed.

When Magnum figures out that the guy playing Nuzzo is a Soviet agent he goes to see Buck Greene and Maggie. Maggie does the computer overlay of the photo of the real Nuzzo and of the agent posing as Nuzzo. My question is whether the photo used for the real Nuzzo is a photo of a young Tim Matheson. I saw the 1968 version of "Yours Mine and Ours" recently and Tim Matheson was in that movie, and that photo looks just like him. Does anyone know if that photo is of him?

[J.J. Walters]

Another nice find IH!

The Nuzo picture does kind of look like Tim Matheson, but I don't think it is. His nose looks a little different.



Unfortunately, I can't find any pictures of him from that movie! The best early pictures of him I can find are these:

from the TV series The Quest (1976)



and this one from Bonanza (1972)



Man, did you know he was in an episode of Leave It to Beaver and did voice work for Johnny Quest!? I had no idea he's been in showbiz that long!

[IslandHopper]

Thanks for investigating James. I saw the movie a few months ago on AMC, TMC, FOX-Movie Channel or some similar channel. When I first saw Tim Matheson in it, I immediately thought that he was the person in the photo as Nuzo.

Since my last post I was thinking that it very well may be him because Tim Matheson was in "Yours Mine And Ours" in 1968, so it makes since that a photo from that same time period would be used, as the real Nuzo could have joined the military in 1968 and served in Vietnam during that time period.

I checked Tim Matheson's IMDB profile and did not see any reference to MPI. If his photo was actually used as the real Nuzo, would he have received a credit for that? I doubt it, but since I am not in that business, I don't know for sure.

I'll see if I can rent the movie or buy it somewhere and compare it to the photo. Unfortunately, I am unable to download particular screen shots on my computer and then post them. I've tried. I like to think it's my computer, but it very well may be because I am not the most computer savvy person out there.

[wilko]

Not sure if this a flub in the shooting but in the scenes where TC and Magnum are in TC's van they are driving along the sea so that the land is on TC's side and the sea on Magnum's side. However when there is a side shot looking directly at both TC and Magnum you can see the sea behind both of them!

[IslandHopper]

Before TC and Magnum arrive at TC's house, Nuzo is waiting on the balcony when he sees a Marine helicopter (OH-58 Kiowa) fly by. The same type that we discussed in the "Don't Eat The Snow In Hawaii" thread. Nuzo confirmed that the helicopter is a Kiowa as he told Magnum and TC it was a "58." As in OH-58 Kiowa.

[J.J. Walters]

Noticed another odd flub. Maggie says that "2,150,000 Marines, Soldiers, Sailers and Airmen" served in the Vietnam War between March of 1965 and January of 1973. Her number is off by several hundred thousand. Almost 3 million U.S. military personnel served in the war. Also, she says "2,150,000" like that is the exact number. What are the odds of that happening, for anything?