Thanks for the intel! I went back and looked it up. I may have to acquire that one for my collection as well.terryfromkerry wrote:Hi ENSHealy,
The shirt in the newspaper photo was worn by Magnum in the pilot when he enters The Snow Palace. To my best recollection it does not feature in any further episodes. Its the Paradise Found mini anthurium shirt in colour navy. Its also available in colours black and red. Only the navy version was worn by Magnum. I bought it recently from alohashirtshop.com. To quote Cousin Eddie again ala Christmas Vacation .................... "Its a good quality item".
... By Its Cover (3.21)
Moderator: Styles Bitchley
Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
Ensign Healy
Scholar in Residence
The Institute for Advanced Magnum Studies
"I woke up one day at 53 and realized I'd never been 23."
Scholar in Residence
The Institute for Advanced Magnum Studies
"I woke up one day at 53 and realized I'd never been 23."
Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
Not the bunco type haha. The Mr. Peters parole office scene was perfect Magnum for me, the irony of TM being the biggest con-man on the show. Always with the best intentions though, Thomas always did it for the right reasons and never malicious in any con he pulled. And making change in the coffee can haha that was gold.
That reminds me of the time....
- Pahonu
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Re:
J.J. Walters wrote:Ok, I'm completely and utterly confused now! LOL!
Let's go back to the scene in question... The scene starts at the "door", looking into the house (from Hot Rod's perspective)...
Truthfully, I'm not sure if this is a set, or the real thing!
We then see Magnum coming around a corner, inside...
This is clearly a set at the "Magnum Soundstage".
We then see Higgins talking back to Magnum (with a noticeable difference in audio sound; sounding very "echo-y")...
This is the shot that appears to filmed at the real house, with the cameras technically inside Eve's pad! Although we don't see much of the interior, it appears to be very similar to what was seen in the scenes filmed in a couple of Hawaii Five-O episodes, which did film inside the house.
Here's another shot, as Hot Rod leaves...
What a strange scene! Unless I am wrong, it appears that they edited together the scene from footage taken at the estate (inside, just by the "door") AND at the soundstage.
They do the same thing in Innocence... A Broad when Joe E Tata’s character arrives.
- ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)
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Re:
Just watched this one the other day and was reading the comments here. Fascinated by the lengthy discussion about that whole patio/walkway area and the different doors that are there, both on the driveway side and the oceanside wing. The screenshots from Hawaii Five-O definitely shed a lot of light on how everything is situated, particularly what the driveway side entry looks like - as shown in "Cloth of Gold". But I'm still curious about that red "X" that J.J. has in that pic from a while ago. What exactly is that small area that protrudes out towards the courtyard and does it go anywhere? Is is just a corner that dead ends? Is there a door to this area from the walkway?J.J. Walters wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:23 pm Sam/RC,
I'm following you for the most part; I understand completely about the "breezeway" that is adjacent to the patio. What I am still confused about is the door closest to the driveway, the door where Higgins is standing. Isn't that just to the left and up a bit from the red 'X' in this shot?
If so, that's not really in the breezway... is it? And if you closed the doors by the patio, wouldn't that make a complete enclosure?? Like a little den, or a foyer, or something?
AAaaahhhh!!!
We know there are the double doors (seen in this episode) that go from the driveway into the rectangular inside/outside walkway space and I think there's another door (or at least entrance) to the left of the double doors that seem to go into the main house. But is there a third door opposite to this door/entrance that goes into that protruding spaced marked by the red "X"?
As for the episode itself I actually found it more enjoyable than on my last watch. Stuart Margolin does what he does best - play a conman. He's doing the exact same thing here to Magnum that he did to Rockfish. He's basically playing Angel and he's great at it! Also love his reference to Agatha as "this chick" and Higgy falling for the con and basically filling in the rest of the details for him.
- Pahonu
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Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
Hey Ivan,
Take a look at the floor plans I created in the Pahonu thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2175
The space with the was a trunk room. It’s location was verified by the set decorator, Rick Romer, in his blog. The existence of a trunk room is also mentioned in the newspaper articles for the 30’s describing the project. As the estate was designed as a second home for a single woman expecting to entertain many guests, it was built with five individual suites and also a space to store all these guest’s luggage… the trunk room. It was accessed by a door opposite the one you mentioned as visible in H5-O. That door led into the service wing, by the way. The floor plans have several mistakes, since corrected, but it was the first I found a link to. The door to the trunk room was exactly opposite the door to the service wing, not up the steps.
The home was designed in the Spanish Colonial Revival style, and as such, has many features that differ from other styles. It seems to confuse a lot of members whose thinking is based in more familiar architectural terms. First, the home basically had no internal hallways. Most major rooms opened to external walkways and terraces or to each other. There was also a real blurring of interior and exterior space. This was possible because of the mild climate. Perhaps the most confusing to many was the space behind the double doors at the driveway that we are all so familiar with from the show. Those arched double doors opened to a space traditionally called a “zaguan”. It was not the entrance to the house proper, but a sort of porch that leads to the entrance. I’n this case, it included the two doors mentioned above, and the steps up through the opening to the arched arcade. That opening had no doors.
Partway down the arcade were the paired doors to the stair hall, which itself wasn’t actually enclosed. The top of the stairs led directly to the long balcony and three of the suites. That type of balcony used as an external hall is traditionally called a “balcon corrido”. If a guest continued to the end of the arched arcade, they arrived at the paired glazed doors leading to the living room. There was also another covered terrace with an opening to the library in the single story ell. Study the plans for a moment and you will see all these things. Again, there have been several changes to these plans based on new information, sadly much of it from demolition photos.
Edit:
Second floor here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2085
Cutaways here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2205
Dimensions here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2235
Take a look at the floor plans I created in the Pahonu thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2175
The space with the was a trunk room. It’s location was verified by the set decorator, Rick Romer, in his blog. The existence of a trunk room is also mentioned in the newspaper articles for the 30’s describing the project. As the estate was designed as a second home for a single woman expecting to entertain many guests, it was built with five individual suites and also a space to store all these guest’s luggage… the trunk room. It was accessed by a door opposite the one you mentioned as visible in H5-O. That door led into the service wing, by the way. The floor plans have several mistakes, since corrected, but it was the first I found a link to. The door to the trunk room was exactly opposite the door to the service wing, not up the steps.
The home was designed in the Spanish Colonial Revival style, and as such, has many features that differ from other styles. It seems to confuse a lot of members whose thinking is based in more familiar architectural terms. First, the home basically had no internal hallways. Most major rooms opened to external walkways and terraces or to each other. There was also a real blurring of interior and exterior space. This was possible because of the mild climate. Perhaps the most confusing to many was the space behind the double doors at the driveway that we are all so familiar with from the show. Those arched double doors opened to a space traditionally called a “zaguan”. It was not the entrance to the house proper, but a sort of porch that leads to the entrance. I’n this case, it included the two doors mentioned above, and the steps up through the opening to the arched arcade. That opening had no doors.
Partway down the arcade were the paired doors to the stair hall, which itself wasn’t actually enclosed. The top of the stairs led directly to the long balcony and three of the suites. That type of balcony used as an external hall is traditionally called a “balcon corrido”. If a guest continued to the end of the arched arcade, they arrived at the paired glazed doors leading to the living room. There was also another covered terrace with an opening to the library in the single story ell. Study the plans for a moment and you will see all these things. Again, there have been several changes to these plans based on new information, sadly much of it from demolition photos.
Edit:
Second floor here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2085
Cutaways here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2205
Dimensions here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2235
- Pahonu
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Re: Re:
Meant to quote you so you knew I responded. See the comments above regarding your question.IvanTheTerrible wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:50 pmJust watched this one the other day and was reading the comments here. Fascinated by the lengthy discussion about that whole patio/walkway area and the different doors that are there, both on the driveway side and the oceanside wing. The screenshots from Hawaii Five-O definitely shed a lot of light on how everything is situated, particularly what the driveway side entry looks like - as shown in "Cloth of Gold". But I'm still curious about that red "X" that J.J. has in that pic from a while ago. What exactly is that small area that protrudes out towards the courtyard and does it go anywhere? Is is just a corner that dead ends? Is there a door to this area from the walkway?J.J. Walters wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:23 pm Sam/RC,
I'm following you for the most part; I understand completely about the "breezeway" that is adjacent to the patio. What I am still confused about is the door closest to the driveway, the door where Higgins is standing. Isn't that just to the left and up a bit from the red 'X' in this shot?
If so, that's not really in the breezway... is it? And if you closed the doors by the patio, wouldn't that make a complete enclosure?? Like a little den, or a foyer, or something?
AAaaahhhh!!!
We know there are the double doors (seen in this episode) that go from the driveway into the rectangular inside/outside walkway space and I think there's another door (or at least entrance) to the left of the double doors that seem to go into the main house. But is there a third door opposite to this door/entrance that goes into that protruding spaced marked by the red "X"?
As for the episode itself I actually found it more enjoyable than on my last watch. Stuart Margolin does what he does best - play a conman. He's doing the exact same thing here to Magnum that he did to Rockfish. He's basically playing Angel and he's great at it! Also love his reference to Agatha as "this chick" and Higgy falling for the con and basically filling in the rest of the details for him.
I agree, Rod is very much Angel here.
- ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)
- Fleet Admiral
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Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
Thanks, Pahonu. Are there any pics of those doors to the trunk room? Either from Five-O or Magnum? Also the doors opposite that (to the service wing) I'm assuming those could be locked, right? Since that would be considered the inside of the house, correct?Pahonu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:21 am Hey Ivan,
Take a look at the floor plans I created in the Pahonu thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2175
The space with the was a trunk room. It’s location was verified by the set decorator, Rick Romer, in his blog. The existence of a trunk room is also mentioned in the newspaper articles for the 30’s describing the project. As the estate was designed as a second home for a single woman expecting to entertain many guests, it was built with five individual suites and also a space to store all these guest’s luggage… the trunk room. It was accessed by a door opposite the one you mentioned as visible in H5-O. That door led into the service wing, by the way. The floor plans have several mistakes, since corrected, but it was the first I found a link to. The door to the trunk room was exactly opposite the door to the service wing, not up the steps.
The home was designed in the Spanish Colonial Revival style, and as such, has many features that differ from other styles. It seems to confuse a lot of members whose thinking is based in more familiar architectural terms. First, the home basically had no internal hallways. Most major rooms opened to external walkways and terraces or to each other. There was also a real blurring of interior and exterior space. This was possible because of the mild climate. Perhaps the most confusing to many was the space behind the double doors at the driveway that we are all so familiar with from the show. Those arched double doors opened to a space traditionally called a “zaguan”. It was not the entrance to the house proper, but a sort of porch that leads to the entrance. I’n this case, it included the two doors mentioned above, and the steps up through the opening to the arched arcade. That opening had no doors.
Partway down the arcade were the paired doors to the stair hall, which itself wasn’t actually enclosed. The top of the stairs led directly to the long balcony and three of the suites. That type of balcony used as an external hall is traditionally called a “balcon corrido”. If a guest continued to the end of the arched arcade, they arrived at the paired glazed doors leading to the living room. There was also another covered terrace with an opening to the library in the single story ell. Study the plans for a moment and you will see all these things. Again, there have been several changes to these plans based on new information, sadly much of it from demolition photos.
Edit:
Second floor here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2085
Cutaways here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2205
Dimensions here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2235
The house was a cool construction for sure. Makes it all the more sad that it's gone now. I know it was beyond repair or facelift but I really wish that after razing it they would have just rebuilt it to match its former glory. That would have been AWESOME! But I suppose that style just doesn't sell anymore? Personally I love an old classic look. I don't go for the cookie-cutter modern stuff. They're a dime a dozen. Nothing special there.
- Pahonu
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Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
No worries. There’s definitely a photo of the door to the kitchen wing. It has Jack Lord in it and you can see the dark wood door to his left as he enters the zaguan from the driveway and goes up the couple of steps to the arched arcade. I think it’s in Cloth of Gold. I have a massive number of photos of the estate in a file… that’s poorly organized. I’ll try to find and post it here.IvanTheTerrible wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:49 pmThanks, Pahonu. Are there any pics of those doors to the trunk room? Either from Five-O or Magnum? Also the doors opposite that (to the service wing) I'm assuming those could be locked, right? Since that would be considered the inside of the house, correct?Pahonu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:21 am Hey Ivan,
Take a look at the floor plans I created in the Pahonu thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2175
The space with the was a trunk room. It’s location was verified by the set decorator, Rick Romer, in his blog. The existence of a trunk room is also mentioned in the newspaper articles for the 30’s describing the project. As the estate was designed as a second home for a single woman expecting to entertain many guests, it was built with five individual suites and also a space to store all these guest’s luggage… the trunk room. It was accessed by a door opposite the one you mentioned as visible in H5-O. That door led into the service wing, by the way. The floor plans have several mistakes, since corrected, but it was the first I found a link to. The door to the trunk room was exactly opposite the door to the service wing, not up the steps.
The home was designed in the Spanish Colonial Revival style, and as such, has many features that differ from other styles. It seems to confuse a lot of members whose thinking is based in more familiar architectural terms. First, the home basically had no internal hallways. Most major rooms opened to external walkways and terraces or to each other. There was also a real blurring of interior and exterior space. This was possible because of the mild climate. Perhaps the most confusing to many was the space behind the double doors at the driveway that we are all so familiar with from the show. Those arched double doors opened to a space traditionally called a “zaguan”. It was not the entrance to the house proper, but a sort of porch that leads to the entrance. I’n this case, it included the two doors mentioned above, and the steps up through the opening to the arched arcade. That opening had no doors.
Partway down the arcade were the paired doors to the stair hall, which itself wasn’t actually enclosed. The top of the stairs led directly to the long balcony and three of the suites. That type of balcony used as an external hall is traditionally called a “balcon corrido”. If a guest continued to the end of the arched arcade, they arrived at the paired glazed doors leading to the living room. There was also another covered terrace with an opening to the library in the single story ell. Study the plans for a moment and you will see all these things. Again, there have been several changes to these plans based on new information, sadly much of it from demolition photos.
Edit:
Second floor here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2085
Cutaways here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2205
Dimensions here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=285&start=2235
The house was a cool construction for sure. Makes it all the more sad that it's gone now. I know it was beyond repair or facelift but I really wish that after razing it they would have just rebuilt it to match its former glory. That would have been AWESOME! But I suppose that style just doesn't sell anymore? Personally I love an old classic look. I don't go for the cookie-cutter modern stuff. They're a dime a dozen. Nothing special there.
Edit: here’s the photo and it is from Sweet Terror
https://ibb.co/NrsgFJp
I knew of the existence of the trunk room as I explained above but was unsure of its door location in the zaguan. The plans I linked show the door up the steps, but another member posted a shot from MPI in the last year or so. It showed that opposite wall up the steps without the door, so it must be before the steps, like the kitchen wing door. I would also add that the trunk room has a corner with a likely closet, based on the home footprint. After some research, I learned it was not uncommon in that era to have a cedar closet in the trunk room or elsewhere in the house to store furs and other clothes likely to be damaged by insects. I drew that closet into the floor plans of the trunk room.
In response to the doors being able to lock, I can’t say with certainty, but they definitely defined the indoor/outdoor space. In estates of this size, there were often many, many exterior doors, and more so in this architectural style. The security of the home was largely provided by the perimeter wall and gates, with less attention to each door being locked when away. By way of example, the garages don’t have doors even though expensive cars were likely stored there.
I’m a fan of period architecture for domestic structures as well. The majority of the built space in terms of offices and public buildings, etc… tend to be more modern in style. I feel traditional architecture is more appealing to many for their homes for that reason. Sadly, I would have to say that there was zero chance of Pahonu being rebuilt as it was, once it had deteriorated beyond repair. I think even I would have made some alterations if restoration was possible. We just don’t live that formally any more, with many live-in servants, even the rich.
- ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)
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Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
I actually have a video clip of this scene - with McGarrett walking all the way up to the front door. So I know about that door to the service wing that he passes. What I can't see is what's opposite of that. The door to the trunk room. In the screenshot from "By Its Cover" it should be just behind and to the right of where Higgins is standing in the doorway. But it's just out of view.Pahonu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:42 am
Edit: here’s the photo and it is from Sweet Terror
https://ibb.co/NrsgFJp
That perimeter wall doesn't provide much security. It's a pretty low stone wall - easy to climb over. I would imagine the service wing to be part of the interior of the house, thus requiring a lock on the door. Unlike the double doors from the driveway to the zaguan.In response to the doors being able to lock, I can’t say with certainty, but they definitely defined the indoor/outdoor space. In estates of this size, there were often many, many exterior doors, and more so in this architectural style. The security of the home was largely provided by the perimeter wall and gates, with less attention to each door being locked when away. By way of example, the garages don’t have doors even though expensive cars were likely stored there.
- Pahonu
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- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:19 am
- Location: Long Beach CA
Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
There’s no photo of the door to the trunk room that I’ve ever seen, but there has to be one in the zaguan, as the other three walls of the trunk room are exterior and have no doors. So it’s location is either before the steps, across from the one we have seen, or up the steps on that same wall. That’s where I drew it on the floor plan originally, until a forum member more recently posted a scene from MPI that showed the arched arcade and the trunk room wall at the top of the steps. There was no door shown, and it can’t be in the middle where the steps are, so it must be before the steps, across from the service wing door. I hope that wasn’t too convoluted.IvanTheTerrible wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:58 pmI actually have a video clip of this scene - with McGarrett walking all the way up to the front door. So I know about that door to the service wing that he passes. What I can't see is what's opposite of that. The door to the trunk room. In the screenshot from "By Its Cover" it should be just behind and to the right of where Higgins is standing in the doorway. But it's just out of view.Pahonu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:42 am
Edit: here’s the photo and it is from Sweet Terror
https://ibb.co/NrsgFJp
That perimeter wall doesn't provide much security. It's a pretty low stone wall - easy to climb over. I would imagine the service wing to be part of the interior of the house, thus requiring a lock on the door. Unlike the double doors from the driveway to the zaguan.In response to the doors being able to lock, I can’t say with certainty, but they definitely defined the indoor/outdoor space. In estates of this size, there were often many, many exterior doors, and more so in this architectural style. The security of the home was largely provided by the perimeter wall and gates, with less attention to each door being locked when away. By way of example, the garages don’t have doors even though expensive cars were likely stored there.
I don’t doubt that all the exterior doors of the estate have locks. I was just pointing out that they were likely not all locked very often because of the perimeter wall and sea wall fencing. According to the survey plat done before the sale, the perimeter wall is a minimum of six feet by the road, and higher in places. The sea wall is even higher by the house and in the places that it’s lower, it has fencing above it. These details, and the fact that the home was likely never left unattended make the interior security of locking every door less important.
Plus, there are so many exterior doors that guests would have used very frequently. This is from memory, but I believe there are about 20 doors that open from various rooms directly outside, and that’s just on the first floor. There are four in the living room alone. By way of example, if a guest was in an upstairs suite, they may or may not have locked their door before going to bed, but if all the other doors were locked by the staff, they couldn’t get into the living room or library, or several other rooms because they don’t all have internal doors connecting them. It’s a different kind of architecture than most are familiar with.
In terms of the place not being left unattended, there would need to have been at least one gardener around or the grounds would grow out of control in weeks. The gardener probably lived in the gatehouse on the first floor. There may also have been one housekeeper who remained full time, living on the second floor of the gatehouse. This was a different time, with far more servants, though this was near the end of that era. I’m sure they locked things up more when guests weren’t around but when the house was being used, it seems far less likely.
When Mrs. Wall was going to have guests or be there herself, she likely brought staff with her from her primary residence in Honolulu. Remember this home has rooms for five or six staff and wasn’t even her primary residence. If you read a little bit about wealthy families in the 19th and early 20th centuries, they often did this in their many homes. Minimal staff would remain as caretakers and when they arrived for the season, as was common on the East Coast, personal staff would come with them, and minimal staff would remain at the home they were departing. Some very wealthy families moved about several homes each year. That’s kind of what is implied about Robin Masters. He’s rarely there but a staff maintains the place so it’s always ready for guests. Robin is supposed to have several other homes as well.
Hawaii doesn’t have an actual climate season that families moved around for like other places, but the tradition of summering in another house or wintering in a different one were often followed nonetheless. It happened here in Southern California back then as well. The wealthy Rindge family, of Adohr Farms, essentially owned all of Malibu at the beginning of the 20the century. They had a huge mansion in LA full of servants. They built a second large home on the Malibu Rancho and then gave their daughter a piece of beach property there where she built a second home for her new family, the Adamson House, that I have discussed previously. They all moved around seasonally among their homes, though the Adamsons eventually made the beach home their primary residence. It was a different way of life. It’s not really common anymore, but some yacht clubs here still have events for the “opening” of the sailing season. We sail all year here so it’s just a formality that some still follow from all those years ago or places where the climate really does shut down the sailing season.
Sorry that got so long!
- ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)
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Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
Yep, I get that the door to the trunk room is before the steps in the zaguan. I would imagine it's right by the the double doors leading out to the driveway, even though you can't really see it next to Higgins standing at the double doors. Must have been just out of camera view.Pahonu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:48 pmThere’s no photo of the door to the trunk room that I’ve ever seen, but there has to be one in the zaguan, as the other three walls of the trunk room are exterior and have no doors. So it’s location is either before the steps, across from the one we have seen, or up the steps on that same wall. That’s where I drew it on the floor plan originally, until a forum member more recently posted a scene from MPI that showed the arched arcade and the trunk room wall at the top of the steps. There was no door shown, and it can’t be in the middle where the steps are, so it must be before the steps, across from the service wing door. I hope that wasn’t too convoluted.IvanTheTerrible wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:58 pmI actually have a video clip of this scene - with McGarrett walking all the way up to the front door. So I know about that door to the service wing that he passes. What I can't see is what's opposite of that. The door to the trunk room. In the screenshot from "By Its Cover" it should be just behind and to the right of where Higgins is standing in the doorway. But it's just out of view.Pahonu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:42 am
Edit: here’s the photo and it is from Sweet Terror
https://ibb.co/NrsgFJp
That perimeter wall doesn't provide much security. It's a pretty low stone wall - easy to climb over. I would imagine the service wing to be part of the interior of the house, thus requiring a lock on the door. Unlike the double doors from the driveway to the zaguan.In response to the doors being able to lock, I can’t say with certainty, but they definitely defined the indoor/outdoor space. In estates of this size, there were often many, many exterior doors, and more so in this architectural style. The security of the home was largely provided by the perimeter wall and gates, with less attention to each door being locked when away. By way of example, the garages don’t have doors even though expensive cars were likely stored there.
I don’t doubt that all the exterior doors of the estate have locks. I was just pointing out that they were likely not all locked very often because of the perimeter wall and sea wall fencing. According to the survey plat done before the sale, the perimeter wall is a minimum of six feet by the road, and higher in places. The sea wall is even higher by the house and in the places that it’s lower, it has fencing above it. These details, and the fact that the home was likely never left unattended make the interior security of locking every door less important.
Plus, there are so many exterior doors that guests would have used very frequently. This is from memory, but I believe there are about 20 doors that open from various rooms directly outside, and that’s just on the first floor. There are four in the living room alone. By way of example, if a guest was in an upstairs suite, they may or may not have locked their door before going to bed, but if all the other doors were locked by the staff, they couldn’t get into the living room or library, or several other rooms because they don’t all have internal doors connecting them. It’s a different kind of architecture than most are familiar with.
In terms of the place not being left unattended, there would need to have been at least one gardener around or the grounds would grow out of control in weeks. The gardener probably lived in the gatehouse on the first floor. There may also have been one housekeeper who remained full time, living on the second floor of the gatehouse. This was a different time, with far more servants, though this was near the end of that era. I’m sure they locked things up more when guests weren’t around but when the house was being used, it seems far less likely.
When Mrs. Wall was going to have guests or be there herself, she likely brought staff with her from her primary residence in Honolulu. Remember this home has rooms for five or six staff and wasn’t even her primary residence. If you read a little bit about wealthy families in the 19th and early 20th centuries, they often did this in their many homes. Minimal staff would remain as caretakers and when they arrived for the season, as was common on the East Coast, personal staff would come with them, and minimal staff would remain at the home they were departing. Some very wealthy families moved about several homes each year. That’s kind of what is implied about Robin Masters. He’s rarely there but a staff maintains the place so it’s always ready for guests. Robin is supposed to have several other homes as well.
Hawaii doesn’t have an actual climate season that families moved around for like other places, but the tradition of summering in another house or wintering in a different one were often followed nonetheless. It happened here in Southern California back then as well. The wealthy Rindge family, of Adohr Farms, essentially owned all of Malibu at the beginning of the 20the century. They had a huge mansion in LA full of servants. They built a second large home on the Malibu Rancho and then gave their daughter a piece of beach property there where she built a second home for her new family, the Adamson House, that I have discussed previously. They all moved around seasonally among their homes, though the Adamsons eventually made the beach home their primary residence. It was a different way of life. It’s not really common anymore, but some yacht clubs here still have events for the “opening” of the sailing season. We sail all year here so it’s just a formality that some still follow from all those years ago or places where the climate really does shut down the sailing season.
Sorry that got so long!
Thanks for the additional info. Sounds like these rich folk carried their servant staff around with them like suitcases. Or rather with the suitcases. Or rather they had them carry their suitcases.
- Pahonu
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Re: ... By Its Cover (3.21)
Absolutely correct about the servants.IvanTheTerrible wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:38 pmYep, I get that the door to the trunk room is before the steps in the zaguan. I would imagine it's right by the the double doors leading out to the driveway, even though you can't really see it next to Higgins standing at the double doors. Must have been just out of camera view.Pahonu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:48 pmThere’s no photo of the door to the trunk room that I’ve ever seen, but there has to be one in the zaguan, as the other three walls of the trunk room are exterior and have no doors. So it’s location is either before the steps, across from the one we have seen, or up the steps on that same wall. That’s where I drew it on the floor plan originally, until a forum member more recently posted a scene from MPI that showed the arched arcade and the trunk room wall at the top of the steps. There was no door shown, and it can’t be in the middle where the steps are, so it must be before the steps, across from the service wing door. I hope that wasn’t too convoluted.IvanTheTerrible wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:58 pmI actually have a video clip of this scene - with McGarrett walking all the way up to the front door. So I know about that door to the service wing that he passes. What I can't see is what's opposite of that. The door to the trunk room. In the screenshot from "By Its Cover" it should be just behind and to the right of where Higgins is standing in the doorway. But it's just out of view.Pahonu wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:42 am
Edit: here’s the photo and it is from Sweet Terror
https://ibb.co/NrsgFJp
That perimeter wall doesn't provide much security. It's a pretty low stone wall - easy to climb over. I would imagine the service wing to be part of the interior of the house, thus requiring a lock on the door. Unlike the double doors from the driveway to the zaguan.In response to the doors being able to lock, I can’t say with certainty, but they definitely defined the indoor/outdoor space. In estates of this size, there were often many, many exterior doors, and more so in this architectural style. The security of the home was largely provided by the perimeter wall and gates, with less attention to each door being locked when away. By way of example, the garages don’t have doors even though expensive cars were likely stored there.
I don’t doubt that all the exterior doors of the estate have locks. I was just pointing out that they were likely not all locked very often because of the perimeter wall and sea wall fencing. According to the survey plat done before the sale, the perimeter wall is a minimum of six feet by the road, and higher in places. The sea wall is even higher by the house and in the places that it’s lower, it has fencing above it. These details, and the fact that the home was likely never left unattended make the interior security of locking every door less important.
Plus, there are so many exterior doors that guests would have used very frequently. This is from memory, but I believe there are about 20 doors that open from various rooms directly outside, and that’s just on the first floor. There are four in the living room alone. By way of example, if a guest was in an upstairs suite, they may or may not have locked their door before going to bed, but if all the other doors were locked by the staff, they couldn’t get into the living room or library, or several other rooms because they don’t all have internal doors connecting them. It’s a different kind of architecture than most are familiar with.
In terms of the place not being left unattended, there would need to have been at least one gardener around or the grounds would grow out of control in weeks. The gardener probably lived in the gatehouse on the first floor. There may also have been one housekeeper who remained full time, living on the second floor of the gatehouse. This was a different time, with far more servants, though this was near the end of that era. I’m sure they locked things up more when guests weren’t around but when the house was being used, it seems far less likely.
When Mrs. Wall was going to have guests or be there herself, she likely brought staff with her from her primary residence in Honolulu. Remember this home has rooms for five or six staff and wasn’t even her primary residence. If you read a little bit about wealthy families in the 19th and early 20th centuries, they often did this in their many homes. Minimal staff would remain as caretakers and when they arrived for the season, as was common on the East Coast, personal staff would come with them, and minimal staff would remain at the home they were departing. Some very wealthy families moved about several homes each year. That’s kind of what is implied about Robin Masters. He’s rarely there but a staff maintains the place so it’s always ready for guests. Robin is supposed to have several other homes as well.
Hawaii doesn’t have an actual climate season that families moved around for like other places, but the tradition of summering in another house or wintering in a different one were often followed nonetheless. It happened here in Southern California back then as well. The wealthy Rindge family, of Adohr Farms, essentially owned all of Malibu at the beginning of the 20the century. They had a huge mansion in LA full of servants. They built a second large home on the Malibu Rancho and then gave their daughter a piece of beach property there where she built a second home for her new family, the Adamson House, that I have discussed previously. They all moved around seasonally among their homes, though the Adamsons eventually made the beach home their primary residence. It was a different way of life. It’s not really common anymore, but some yacht clubs here still have events for the “opening” of the sailing season. We sail all year here so it’s just a formality that some still follow from all those years ago or places where the climate really does shut down the sailing season.
Sorry that got so long!
Thanks for the additional info. Sounds like these rich folk carried their servant staff around with them like suitcases. Or rather with the suitcases. Or rather they had them carry their suitcases.
I recall reading somewhere that in 1900, one in three households had at least one live-in servant. Think about that! What would that number be today 1-10,000 maybe? I don’t even know. When I look at historic floor plans, it is reflected in them by the presence of small bedrooms and a bathroom off the kitchen. New York has an apartment style referred to as a “classic six” meaning it has a living room, dining room, kitchen, two bedrooms, and a third servant bedroom. This is an apartment with just two bedrooms but it has a servants room. One of the most important architects of the Spanish Colonial Revival, GW Smith, built himself a home in Montecito, outside Santa Barbara around 1920. It was designed with just two bedrooms, but also had two servant bedrooms over the garage. He had no children, just he and his wife, but had two servants. Different times indeed!