Magnum vs. James Bond

[Chris109]

Actually, you are all missing the original James Bond. It was Casino Royale from 1954. And Bond was played by Barry Nelson, who played William B. Knox in the Magnum episode Double Jeopardy.

[Pahonu]

Actually, you are all missing the original James Bond. It was Casino Royale from 1954. And Bond was played by Barry Nelson, who played William B. Knox in the Magnum episode Double Jeopardy.

More accurately, he played Jimmy Bond. I’ve seen it and they clearly Americanized the lead character, to its detriment.

[Pahonu]

You forgot David Niven’s Bond... I remember looking at the cast of that Bond spoof and thinking how amazing it must be. No idea what happened there but they created a total turd. Not funny, not cool, not even a plot you can follow.

I like your list and I’m surprised to see The Living Daylights up there. It’s one of the few I’ve never seen. I was just too mad about Moore (my Bond as a kid) being replaced. I don’t like change - probably a common sentiment around this forum. Not to get too analytical about this, but it’s probably why Jay Hernandez never had a chance with much of the nostalgic fan base. After all, my dad couldn’t fathom how I could enjoy watching anyone but Connery in the title role of a Bond flick.

After the space fantasy of Moonraker, which I agree is a bit of a stinker, I found For Your Eyes Only a nice return to reality. Octopussy was less compelling and even less so for A View to a Kill, so when Dalton appeared in The Living Daylights, I was pleased. By this point in the series, all of Fleming’s novels had been filmed and the films listed above were very loosely based on some short stories. Granted, the Moore films were also loosely based on the novels, sometimes using only the title, such as Moonraker as you previously posted. The Spy Who Loved Me and Live and Let Die were similar circumstances. Interestingly, a scene from License to Kill came from the Live and Let Die novel.

All of this is based on the fact that I had read all of Fleming’s novels before I finished high school and had come to realize how Moore’s portrayal was sooo far from the Bond in the novels. Connery was much closer and in many ways Dalton was as well. Craig did the same, but by then the public had a different idea of what Bond was. Dalton’s portrayal suffered the same fate. All that said, Fleming’s Bond was a misogynistic, racist, imperialistic character very much of his time, not unlike Fleming himself actually admitted to being. The Bond character represented a last hurrah for the post-war British Empire in severe decline and nearing its end. I remember thinking in high school in the mid-80’s that this character was kind of an a-hole actually, but that he was also operating in a very brutal world. Further knowledge gave me a more complete picture of the time and place the novels existed in.

On a side note, I also very much liked the novel Moonraker but it was quite static and not conducive to filming, though it was full of tension, particularly the card game at the Blades Club. The original choice for the film to follow The Spy Who Loved Me was For Your Eyes Only. It says so in the final credits, but with the space shuttle development and the success of Star Wars and the Star Trek movie, the producers took the title Moonraker and left the novel behind. From Russia with Love was also not well-suited for film as almost all the scenes are inside. The producers purposefully added the boat chase scene to the film for some exterior settings. Perhaps the only film that was toned DOWN from the novel was Dr. No. It was written by Fleming after Goldfinger in the series which was not as good as the film. Dr. No had many fantastic elements that the earlier novels did not and many were eliminated from the film.

Sorry that got long!!!

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

Actually, you are all missing the original James Bond. It was Casino Royale from 1954. And Bond was played by Barry Nelson, who played William B. Knox in the Magnum episode Double Jeopardy.

More accurately, he played Jimmy Bond. I’ve seen it and they clearly Americanized the lead character, to its detriment.

Yep, and they made Leiter British instead. Except it wasn't Felix Leiter but Clarence Leiter.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

You forgot David Niven’s Bond... I remember looking at the cast of that Bond spoof and thinking how amazing it must be. No idea what happened there but they created a total turd. Not funny, not cool, not even a plot you can follow.

I like your list and I’m surprised to see The Living Daylights up there. It’s one of the few I’ve never seen. I was just too mad about Moore (my Bond as a kid) being replaced. I don’t like change - probably a common sentiment around this forum. Not to get too analytical about this, but it’s probably why Jay Hernandez never had a chance with much of the nostalgic fan base. After all, my dad couldn’t fathom how I could enjoy watching anyone but Connery in the title role of a Bond flick.

Yeah I have no idea what that Niven thing was. I don't think anyone does. Everyone who made that thing (I think there were like 5 or 6 credited directors, including John Huston if you can believe it) must have been on drugs because nothing in it makes a lick of sense. You can't even call it a spoof because I don't even know what it's spoofing. None of it is funny in any way nor is there a point to any of it. I certainly don't count it as anything Bond-related.

Don't forget that The Living Daylights was supposed to be with Brosnan, replacing Moore. Until the NBC execs, seeing his star on the rise, decided to rope him back into another season of REMINGTON STEELE (which ultimately only ended up being a few episodes), thereby leaving the spot open for Dalton. Brosnan was understandably crushed. Of course luckily it all worked out for him eventually by 1995. But Dalton was very good. I liked him a lot. Shame the audience wasn't ready for his more serious take on the character. I know there are many who don't care too much for the 80s Bond films (all directed by John Glen), calling them either lackluster or long-in-the-tooth or by-the-numbers. They don't have the classic status of the 60s Bond films with Connery which of course broke new ground at the time. And then the 70s films carried the torch forward with Roger Moore successfully readjusting the franchise to suit his more comedic, raised eyebrow, proper English gentleman strengths. But then by the 80s Roger was showing his age at a time when a slew of new action heroes was emerging, making Bond seem like a thing of the past. Then Dalton stepped in and the franchise took a pretty drastic change in tone, which the audience wasn't ready for. Licence to Kill in particular was pretty violent (bordering on rated-R territory), obviously chasing the Die Hard, Rambo, Death Wish, Lethal Weapon trends of the day. But personally I'm a big fan of the 80s Bond films, in particular For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, and The Living Daylights. Those 3 for me are among the very best in the series! All 3 benefit from a Cold War plot, something that was largely absent in the more fantastical 70s Bonds. I don't think we've had anything since then (with the exception of GoldenEye) that can match those 3 from the 80s. So the 80s Bond films definitely have a special place with me. I'll take them over Indiana Jones and the Terminator and Rambo and Martin Riggs and any other action icon/franchise from the 80s. DIE HARD is the only film that I would place above them, but then it's probably my all-time favorite film and simply the greatest action film of all time.

[Pahonu]

But personally I'm a big fan of the 80s Bond films, in particular For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, and The Living Daylights. Those 3 for me are among the very best in the series! All 3 benefit from a Cold War plot, something that was largely absent in the more fantastical 70s Bonds. I don't think we've had anything since then (with the exception of GoldenEye) that can match those 3 from the 80s. So the 80s Bond films definitely have a special place with me. I'll take them over Indiana Jones and the Terminator and Rambo and Martin Riggs and any other action icon/franchise from the 80s. DIE HARD is the only film that I would place above them, but then it's probably my all-time favorite film and simply the greatest action film of all time.

Ivan, I think we’re on the same page here, and I don’t mean that facetiously. We seem to have different tastes on many things, but I agree about the 80’s Bond films… minus A View to a Kill. For Your Eyes Only was a great return to Earth, figuratively and literally, for Moore after Moonraker. Interestingly, it is based on both the short story and name of the collection, and another story from the collection called Risico. Octopussy is not as good in my view though the opening scene with the mini-jet is very entertaining, nothing close to The Spy Who Loved Me’s parachute off Asgard though. The scene at the auction of the Faberge egg came from a short story called The Property of Lady that was sometimes included in the Octopussy collection of short stories.

Dalton’s introduction on Gibraltar in The Living Daylights is also fantastic and the defector scene and female agent was based again on the short story of the same title. It’s probably my favorite among the short stories, though it’s dark. Another short story called The Hildebrand Rarity with the Milton Krest character was used in License to Kill. As mentioned previously, by this time the producers had used up most of the novels ideas and turned to the short stories as inspiration. Three further notes along this line. A View to a Kill used the title of a short story called From a View to a Kill, about the sniping of a motorcycle courier, but the movie only took the title. The last short story was Quantum of Solace and not used until the Craig films. Finally, License to Kill took the idea of Felix Leiter being fed to sharks from and unused scene in the Live and Let Die novel.

Have you read the novels?

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

Ivan, I think we’re on the same page here, and I don’t mean that facetiously. We seem to have different tastes on many things, but I agree about the 80’s Bond films… minus A View to a Kill.

I have a soft spot for AVTAK. Love the snowboarding opening (yes, even with the Beach Boys "California Girls" playing ), love all the spying at the horse stables at the French Chateau, love the Golden Gate Bridge finale, love the song by Duran Duran and John Barry's score, but most of all Christopher Walken and Grace Jones make such a bizarre but effective pairing that they're easily my favorite villainous duo in the series! Can't forget Patrick MacNee - he adds a lot in his scenes with Roger Moore.

Octopussy is not as good in my view though the opening scene with the mini-jet is very entertaining, nothing close to The Spy Who Loved Me’s parachute off Asgard though. The scene at the auction of the Faberge egg came from a short story called The Property of Lady that was sometimes included in the Octopussy collection of short stories.

My absolute favorite 80s Bond film! The Faberge egg auction at Sotheby's is an absolute gem of a scene! One of the best "Bondian" scenes in the entire series and Roger Moore (and Louis Jourdan for that matter) are effortlessly cool in those scenes, bidding against each other. Louis Jourdan (as the suave Kamal Khan) and Steven Berkoff (as the mad Russian General Orlov) are a fantastic villainous pair! Plus the henchman Gobinda and the Russian knife-throwing circus twins. Maud Adams and Kristina Wayborn are excellent Bond girls and Desmond Llewelyn as Q finally gets to do some "field work" here. And as you mentioned the mini-jet opening and the airplane stunt in the finale (hair-raising, done for real) are highlights as well. Kudos again to John Barry for his score. The man was always on point with his music.

Have you read the novels?

Nope, never got around to them. But I've heard lots of the details of what was borrowed from them and incorporated into which movies. Maybe some day...

[eagle]

... I agree about the 80’s Bond films… minus A View to a Kill.

I'm a big Duran Duran fan as well as a big Bond fan, and I absolutely love Duran Duran's theme song for that one. I'm with you - I wish the movie was better.

Have you read the novels?

I personally have not, and want to.

[Pahonu]

The Duran Duran theme song is the best part of A View to a Kill, and one of the best. It has some good elements, including the Golden Gate finale and the snowboarding opening, which was brand new at the time. Grace Jones was a great hench(wo)man and Walken was also good. For me, it just has too many slow parts as does Octopussy. The last few times I viewed them, they seemed to drag in several places and I wanted to press the fast forward button.

I’ve read all the books, some more than once as I decided to read them in order. I think big fans of the Bond films will have a few reactions, probably mixed. First, Bond is a very misogynistic and racist character, as Fleming admitted to being personally when pressed. The suave, sophisticated Bond of Moore and others to a lesser degree is not as evident. He’s very regimented in many ways and more harsh than film fans might expect. I said it before, but I recall thinking I wouldn’t want to be this guy, he’s kind of an a-hole. He also gets seriously injured multiple times and tortured in the first novel. A lot of this brutal violence is absent from the films and there’s no humor to speak of. He’s very serious and sober in his behavior. Finally, there are none of the fantastical stunts that film fans have come to expect.

I’m sure there are more differences if I think about it a little more.

Edit:

Here’s a good write-up about the literary Bond compared to the actors.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant ... anges/amp/