Luther's nephew Dobie wrote:Hi Guys,
What a great thread! As noted Buck was a Hemingway stand in, especially with his attitude to Death. Posters wondering why Magnum didn't "save" the already doomed Buck perhaps missed the point.
Buck had finally defeated Death by embracing it on his own terms. Magnum understood that, and when Buck asked Thomas if this was going to end with Thomas wrestling him to the ground, at best only a temporary hold on Buck's plans, it was clear Buck's choice was best honored.
I am not meaning to be sexist but this is a "man's episode", the kind of thinking that caused the aforementioned Hunter Thompson to write that excessive drinking was a way for a fellow to get "rid of the pain of being a man", as you can't host a pity party like women do and have a good cry together.
I think what appeals to many of the people here about Mad Buck is him having the b--ls to go out on a high, sailing out into some of the most beautiful scenery on earth to meet God, as it were, carefree instead of rotting in a hospital bed, no shred of manly dignity left to him, hoping the attendant will come soon and wipe him. Fock no, thank you very much.
By the way Hemingway decided to kill himself after he couldnt write anymore and do all the things in life he enjoyed such as hunting and fishing and the ladies. Ironically what brought that on were many episodes of electric shock therapy, the doctors deciding on that remedy because Papa insisted the FBI was following him everywhere and tapping his phone, which it later turned out they were!
Hey JJ, I hope the word "fock" passes your standards test as I made it up in any event.
Mike
I enjoyed this episode and understand Buck's decision, but I have always taken the other side on this dilemma.
Hi ConchRepublican,
You wrote
"I enjoyed this episode and understand Buck's decision, but I have always taken the other side on this dilemma.There's nothing manly about quitting".
Neither I or the Magnum writers was talking about quitting, as Buck was already fated to take the mortgage out on some rural acreage, ie 'buy the farm'.
I'm talking Buck preferring the dignity of dying the way he wants and giving Death the finger(instead of being reduced to the status of a small child in a hospital, dependent on Mommy/the staff for everything) and the right to be left the hell alone to do that.
Who has the right to tell Buck otherwise?
For people who live life a certain way I can't think of anything worse than to give up all your freedom of action/choice because some stranger in a doctor suit dictates how you will end your time on earth.
John Wayne suffered such a living hell when he was dying from cancer that though he had re embraced Catholicism he begged his sons to bring him a pistol so he could end his suffering, cancer being such a horror that no one should go out that way. Though his boys refused, they later regretted it because The Duke's suffering was pointless.
Personally I think it is morally wrong to commit suicide, such as when a Curt Cobaine(spelling?) does it because he is a 'tortured artist' with stomach problems.
But if someone is doomed to die an ugly death, and they can opt for a dignified one, I won't pass judgement on him/her(which I guess is what Magnum finally decided as he let Buck go).
If it's a matter of experiencing some of the worst aspects of life to be able to relate to this episode of Magnum, maybe it's better to not 'get' it's theme.
If you ask me, I think Magnum, Higgins and Rick - but not TC -would do the same as Mad Buck in the same circumstances. Mike
Last edited by Luther's nephew Dobie on Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
Ok a 9 for me. I love the series and think like many that there really aren't many shows out there of this quality so even a lame MPI isn't that bad. I don't mind no bad guys, or Mc Gavin's fake hair/beard- he is McGavin - he is pretty awesome especially in Christmas Story... , the ending is OK too . I love the Hemingway nod - one of my favorite if not my favorite writers- Shakespeare and Graham Greene round it out... but his antics resulted in hurting others and his cavalier disregard for others are what bugged me . The over the top personality bordered on being an a$$%hole, McGavin's speech at end saved this character-just .
The humor was welcome here.
Great laugh out loud moment - the bartender recycling the chips and the bar patron in background just nodding along. Great seedy bar characterization and Higgins knowing the pattern and counting correctly - it is preposterous and delightful and why I love higgy baby.
Hi Magnumette,
You wrote
" The over the top personality bordered on being an a$$%hole, McGavin's speech at end saved this character-just"
Since Buck is a classic man-child type, he is of course a jerk a lot of the time and if you were his buddy or spouse you would have to forgive alot. But I suspect his treatment of his ex wife, constantly pushing her away and doing everything he could to get her to stop caring for him may have been his way to spare her any more grief since his death was at hand. She must have known that too otherwise like everyone else she would have given up on him.
I also think Buck's "antics" that often result "in hurting others" is pretty typical behavior for males in their 20's, where petty betrayals are a source of humor - Buck's problem is he's still doing it.
Magnumette, I am begining to wonder if Buck isnt supposed to also represent some sort of wake up call for Thomas, Rick and Higgins, a mirror of what might await them if they dont settle down and find a good woman. Luther Gillis definitely represents that to Thomas, to his horror.
I laughed at your "Higgy Baby", I agree he rocks but don't you get the impression he isnt really embraced by some of the posters here?
I think a lot of us really like Higgins and John Hillerman in general.
I'd go as far to say that without the character of Higgins, the show doesn't work nearly as well as he fills many different roles - comrade, foil, straight man, comic relief, father figure, sometimes antagonist and backstory provider.
Even in some of the weaker episodes..it's usually the Higgins scenes that totally save them for me.
I think a lot of us really like Higgins and John Hillerman in general.
I'd go as far to say that without the character of Higgins, the show doesn't work nearly as well as he fills many different roles - comrade, foil, straight man, comic relief, father figure, sometimes antagonist and backstory provider.
Even in some of the weaker episodes..it's usually the Higgins scenes that totally save them for me.
Obviously he is not THE main character, but I'd say he IS the main character after TM.
In many ways, he is what makes the series work as well as it does.
Dobie:
I like your view that the man child of Mad Buck could be applied to Tm and Co. because he understands him saying we are not old just not young anymore. And looking at Luther as yourself in 20 years if you don't change your ways is sobering indeed. Although I think I would have simply loved if TM would have slipped and called a bad guy scruncho instead of turkey or yo/yo just once - it would have made a great denoument TM all like in power of the situation saying "Stow it Scruncho"- or something like that .
But as far as love for Higgins I do believe that many do appreciate Higgins on the board -I cant imagine to not appreciate the lovely snobby little man - for shame!But maybe he is an acquired taste..
I see the heart and humor of Higgins - his encylopedic knowledge borders on cartoonish Dr Peabody or the professor on Gilligan's island. It is preposterous and delicious. And stays just within the realm of plausibility. His delivery of sage advice wrapped up in stories is British understatement wrappped up in oxymoronic flamboyance.
In mad buck his advice on the beach is droll and profound- classic Higgy.
He serves as all that Ibold and 308 state. We are all richer for it , maybe a new thread why we love higgins? is needed?
Hi Magnumette,
You wrote
"Dobie:
... I think I would have simply loved if TM would have slipped and called a bad guy scruncho instead of turkey or yo/yo just once - it would have made a great denoument TM all like in power of the situation saying "Stow it Scruncho"- or something like that .
...But as far as love for Higgins I do believe that many do appreciate Higgins on the board
...He serves as all that Ibold and 308 state. We are all richer for it , maybe a new thread why we love higgins? is needed?"
I think your idea of having TM use Uncle Luther's slang is terrific and very funny. But, is the word 'scruncho' or 'scrunge-o'?
It's hard to go against Ibold's, 308's and your sentiments about your Higgy Baby.
I believe that in the history of tv on a very few occasions both writers and actor have come together to create a unique and indelible character that no one else could possibly mimic in a remake.
You might, if you got very lucky, be able to remake Magnum with a new Rick, TC and TM, (though I frankly doubt it) but there is no way anyone could fill Hillerman's shoes.
The uniqueness of his Higgins is on par with Dan Blocker's Hoss Cartwright, Lucille Ball's Lucy, Don Knott's Barney Fife, George Maharis's Buz Murdoch, Bill Cosby's Alexander Scott from I Spy which changed tv forever,Jack Webb's Joe Friday, Shatner/Nimoy's Kirk and Spock, and a very few others.
Honorable mention to Joe Flynn's Captain Binghamton who dominated every episode of the low brow McHales Navy, stealing the series from Oscar winner Ernie Borgnine, doing it with verve and impeccable timing, making a essentially kid's show into a guilty pleasure for adults.
But I digress.
Does anyone recall what episode mentioned Higgins winning the VC?
I think in the syndicated episodes, it must have been edited out because I don't recall ever seeing it mentioned.
Mike
Luther's nephew Dobie "Gillis"
"That's Dobie with a 'b' not a 'P'....Dwayne Hickman
Hey nephew Dobie:
All these years I thought your Uncle Luther was saying scruncho- scrungo makes so much more sense! Glad you appreciate my humor As a girl in the 80's maybe I was thinking of scrunchie- a hair accessory which I used... I also didn't appreciate the humor of Luther I thought he was a loser after all the name sounds similar... but as I have matured I do really appreciate your uncle...
Magnumette wrote, "Hey nephew Dobie:
All these years I thought your Uncle Luther was saying scruncho- scrungo makes so much more sense! Glad you appreciate my humor As a girl in the 80's maybe I was thinking of scrunchie- a hair accessory which I used... I also didn't appreciate the humor of Luther I thought he was a loser after all the name sounds similar... but as I have matured I do really appreciate your uncle..."
Hi Magnumette,
I'm glad you appreciate the ole Luthermeister. I liked him from the get go because he was a in joke wink to the genre of the PI flim, especially as seen in the immortal Murder, My Sweet, which I bet is one of the movies the writers had in mind when they created him. Luther is also Magnum 25 years in the future:
still unmarried and scoring with the(age appropiate)hot babes like Sheree North(a great beauty in her salad days), writing 'How to be a detective' book, having a daughter he had little contact with, having buddies with names like Chucky which indicated prolonged childhoods, and too often choosing to just bull into a dangerous situation instead of cooly calculating the tactical situation.
Magnumette, if the writers had taken your idea and went all out with a Magnum set in the future of 2014, Selleck with a gut and spouting Luther speak while driving his PI daughter Lilly crazy, well I would have liked it but maybe not the purists.
For me, this episode is in my top five. I agree that McGavin is a bit over the top, honestly he was over the top in "A Christmas Story" and in "Kolchak," but I have to say that's part of the charm with McGavin that I like. But I forgive that, even forgive the fake beard, for this story. Just really appreciate the complex, difficult choices facing the characters in this episode.
This forum is just awesome, so I don't really hesitate to share more of why I like this episode so well with this community of great people. This episode is very personal to me. My father was a baseball and football coach, as well as a PE teacher and driver's ed teacher, at my town's high school for a little over thirty years. A lot of the stereotypes with that kind of character fit with my dad. He was gruff. He had all kinds of sayings like, "excuses are like assholes, everyone's got them and they all stink" or "you guys play defense like old people make love, poorly and not very often." He won a state championship in football (a team I was able to play for:) and in baseball. Over the years, my dad became a bit of a celebrity in my home town. People had good-natured jokes about him. They liked to place wagers at the VFW regarding how quickly my dad would go into a diatribe on the sidelines. My dad liked to party really hard on the weekends. He was known to get into some occasional trouble. His students and players loved him as "coach," and a lot of people just saw him as the coolest thing.
But my dad was very different with my brother and I at home. He was a lot more patient than people knew. He would scream at me and kick me in the butt if I threw to the wrong base during a baseball game, but he would patiently sit my down and explain to me why there was going to be consequences when I took off in the driver's ed car when I was twelve, and he never yelled at me at all after I accidentally set the farm field behind the new Walmart on fire - he was simply thankful I was not hurt. People didn't know it, but my dad liked a lot more than watching football and baseball on tv. He was a fan of Bogart and old movies. He liked music. He liked board games.
So when I watch this episode, I see Mad Buck Gibson trying to live up to an image of himself that has gotten way out of control. Buck, like my father did, gets caught up in playing the image other people assign to him. As we watch the episode, we see that Buck is, truly, frightened of his illness. Buck admits that he thinks as himself as almost a coward, as a man nothing like the adventurer his public image as a writer has been made out to be. It's a story of a man dealing with terminal sickness, and a difficult choice, but it is also a story of a man who struggles to remember who he really is as his death is staring him in the eyes.
My father fought a very hard, short battle with cancer. By the time he relented to my harping and complaining and went to the doctor when he finally felt too bad to ignore it, the cancer had spread pretty much throughout his body and really did havoc to his bones. My dad so often told me on the sporting field to be tough, and to be a man, and to tough it out. So at first, I took that angle back at my dad - told him he wasn't going to quit and surrender to the cancer, that he was going to have to fight, that he was going to go down swinging, because, God Dammit, that's what he taught me to do. It was really hard on him. He just shrank into a man of bones so quickly, and I know he really hurt as he went through the treatments. It was hard when his old players came to visit him, and when they saw that he was no longer that "Mad Coach Wheeler" anymore, but was a weak man nearing his end. People, and I don't blame them, had a hard time giving our family a little privacy; they wanted to know how their "coach" was, while we were trying to comfort our "father." So I really empathize with the character of Buck's wife, she is trying to care for a husband, not for a larger-than-life writer.
There came a time when I had a decision that I feel wasn't so unlike the one Thomas made on that cliff top as Buck gets ready to leap off on his hang-glider. I'm in the hospital one morning next to my sleeping dad's bed. My dad doesn't hardly weigh anything anymore. A doctor who I had never seen during my father's later care and treatment, comes in and says. "Hey, your father had a mild heart attack last night, so we're going to go ahead an install a pacemaker in his chest." I went BALLISTIC! I was like, really, you think so? I don't care if it's not fair for me to think so, but I suspect that doctor was hoping to get a kickback upon selling a new pacemaker (my experience with my father's care has left me with a real, bad bitter taste in my mouth regarding our health care system). I realized at that moment that I had to let go, that the battle, no matter the spirit of the fight, was not going to be won. The time was at hand to let my dad stop suffering and feeling afraid. My dad passed a couple hard weeks later, but I'm proud I made that choice, and my family is too. I don't mean to say that's the right way to go for everyone. I am only trying to say it's very complex and difficult.
And because this episode shows that hard complexity is why I love it so much. I had more than a few "Bazooka Joes" with my dad, and I helped bail him out of some adventures (even bailed him out of jail once in Memphis - LOL!). So I have to admit I see a lot of my dad in Old Mad Buck, and so I love, love, love this episode.
I had missed the (obvious in retrospect) Hemingway parallels when I first watched this episode. On rewatching it a couple of days ago, I was reminded of a famous short story by Hemingway called "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber." Spoilers: It's about a man who finally conquers his fears while on a safari, but is shot and killed a short time later. I think that for all of his adventuring and partying, that Mad Buck only truly "lived" when he got the bad news from his doctor. A short, but happy, life.
BWheelz54 wrote:For me, this episode is in my top five. I agree that McGavin is a bit over the top, honestly he was over the top in "A Christmas Story" and in "Kolchak," but I have to say that's part of the charm with McGavin that I like. But I forgive that, even forgive the fake beard, for this story. Just really appreciate the complex, difficult choices facing the characters in this episode.
This forum is just awesome, so I don't really hesitate to share more of why I like this episode so well with this community of great people. This episode is very personal to me. My father was a baseball and football coach, as well as a PE teacher and driver's ed teacher, at my town's high school for a little over thirty years. A lot of the stereotypes with that kind of character fit with my dad. He was gruff. He had all kinds of sayings like, "excuses are like assholes, everyone's got them and they all stink" or "you guys play defense like old people make love, poorly and not very often." He won a state championship in football (a team I was able to play for:) and in baseball. Over the years, my dad became a bit of a celebrity in my home town. People had good-natured jokes about him. They liked to place wagers at the VFW regarding how quickly my dad would go into a diatribe on the sidelines. My dad liked to party really hard on the weekends. He was known to get into some occasional trouble. His students and players loved him as "coach," and a lot of people just saw him as the coolest thing.
But my dad was very different with my brother and I at home. He was a lot more patient than people knew. He would scream at me and kick me in the butt if I threw to the wrong base during a baseball game, but he would patiently sit my down and explain to me why there was going to be consequences when I took off in the driver's ed car when I was twelve, and he never yelled at me at all after I accidentally set the farm field behind the new Walmart on fire - he was simply thankful I was not hurt. People didn't know it, but my dad liked a lot more than watching football and baseball on tv. He was a fan of Bogart and old movies. He liked music. He liked board games.
So when I watch this episode, I see Mad Buck Gibson trying to live up to an image of himself that has gotten way out of control. Buck, like my father did, gets caught up in playing the image other people assign to him. As we watch the episode, we see that Buck is, truly, frightened of his illness. Buck admits that he thinks as himself as almost a coward, as a man nothing like the adventurer his public image as a writer has been made out to be. It's a story of a man dealing with terminal sickness, and a difficult choice, but it is also a story of a man who struggles to remember who he really is as his death is staring him in the eyes.
My father fought a very hard, short battle with cancer. By the time he relented to my harping and complaining and went to the doctor when he finally felt too bad to ignore it, the cancer had spread pretty much throughout his body and really did havoc to his bones. My dad so often told me on the sporting field to be tough, and to be a man, and to tough it out. So at first, I took that angle back at my dad - told him he wasn't going to quit and surrender to the cancer, that he was going to have to fight, that he was going to go down swinging, because, God Dammit, that's what he taught me to do. It was really hard on him. He just shrank into a man of bones so quickly, and I know he really hurt as he went through the treatments. It was hard when his old players came to visit him, and when they saw that he was no longer that "Mad Coach Wheeler" anymore, but was a weak man nearing his end. People, and I don't blame them, had a hard time giving our family a little privacy; they wanted to know how their "coach" was, while we were trying to comfort our "father." So I really empathize with the character of Buck's wife, she is trying to care for a husband, not for a larger-than-life writer.
There came a time when I had a decision that I feel wasn't so unlike the one Thomas made on that cliff top as Buck gets ready to leap off on his hang-glider. I'm in the hospital one morning next to my sleeping dad's bed. My dad doesn't hardly weigh anything anymore. A doctor who I had never seen during my father's later care and treatment, comes in and says. "Hey, your father had a mild heart attack last night, so we're going to go ahead an install a pacemaker in his chest." I went BALLISTIC! I was like, really, you think so? I don't care if it's not fair for me to think so, but I suspect that doctor was hoping to get a kickback upon selling a new pacemaker (my experience with my father's care has left me with a real, bad bitter taste in my mouth regarding our health care system). I realized at that moment that I had to let go, that the battle, no matter the spirit of the fight, was not going to be won. The time was at hand to let my dad stop suffering and feeling afraid. My dad passed a couple hard weeks later, but I'm proud I made that choice, and my family is too. I don't mean to say that's the right way to go for everyone. I am only trying to say it's very complex and difficult.
And because this episode shows that hard complexity is why I love it so much. I had more than a few "Bazooka Joes" with my dad, and I helped bail him out of some adventures (even bailed him out of jail once in Memphis - LOL!). So I have to admit I see a lot of my dad in Old Mad Buck, and so I love, love, love this episode.
And I really like Hemingway a lot too.
Hi BWheel,
Terrific post, really good. You made your Dad come alive to strangers who never met him, a guy who was the classic mentoring coach of your youth who was not a plaster saint but rather a fully realized person who could also raise a little hell in Memphis, which made me laugh too when you stated it.
I think you were fortunate and blessed to have him as long as you did.
I also salute you for having the guts in making the choice you did in regards to the pacemaker, weak people would have opted to have it installed as it would be easier on them, as opposed to doing the right thing by your Dad and by what he imparted to you growing up.
I know some people won't understand that, I hope they never suffer through the experience in order to do so.
As for McGavin, you are right on with him being 'over the top'. Author Jean Shepherd didnt care for him in Christmas Story because he trampled over the nuances of the father Shep had crafted in his stories on the radio and in the source book In God We Trust. But like you, I like that touch of ham in Buck and Kolchak and in Mike Hammer.
Thanks again for sharing your story, BWheel.
marlboro wrote:I was reminded of a famous short story by Hemingway called "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber." Spoilers: It's about a man who finally conquers his fears while on a safari, but is shot and killed a short time later. I think that for all of his adventuring and partying, that Mad Buck only truly "lived" when he got the bad news from his doctor. A short, but happy, life.
I always thought it clever that the story is titled The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber--there isn't a comma between "short" and "happy", which is something Hemingway did intentionally. One doesn't get a completely happy ending in any Hemingway tale.
Big Hemingway fan here and so is A.J. Simon, as Hemingway's Selected Letters, 1917-1961 is chosen as part of A.J.'s "vacation reading" in the season three Simon & Simon episode D.J., D.O.A.