The Robin Masters Estate (Pahonu)

[Pahonu]

I have no problem with the willing suspension of disbelief. After all, that’s the bases of all motion pictures.

Just please, please, PLEASE don’t try to argue that it will fit in!

So, question, and I am really not trying to start something here:

What is the problem with the guest house/boat house? Is it simply dimensions? As in, is it something like this (picking numbers, since I don't know the real numbers): the boat house is 20x20x20 feet (ha), and the guest house stage is 40x40x40 feet?

Or is it something like this: The layout of the show's guest house does not match the layout of the real boat house? That is, for example: the stairs in the guest house are "here," whereas the stairs in the boat house are "there"...

Not a problem! I’ve gotten good at this.

The creators of the guesthouse set actually did a pretty good job of making it seem as though it could be the interior of the boathouse. Your second scenario is not the major problem, but it is part of the problem. The biggest success in the design is the stairs down into the guesthouse based on the boathouse lanai being up several steps. I think that is what convinces most people that it really exists that way. However, no competent architect would design such a structure. Imagine the only way to get into your home is to go up a flight of stairs and then back down to the level you started at?!?!?

In fact, there are no interior stairs at all in the boathouse. It is two completely separate levels, the lower level being partially subterranean on the side toward the estate entrance gate. Downstairs is simply large storage room for water equipment, hence the name “boathouse”. It has a separate entrance door below the lanai steps and also the large garage-like doors facing the water with a ramp to the sand and water. It also has several small windows on all sides for light. They are very near grade as can be seen in some scenes because it is partially submerged below grade. The upstairs consists of the large lanai, about two-thirds of the total space, and the small interior space with a bathroom and one other room. This room is counted as a bedroom in the property tax documents.

The real problem is the size, and it’s not even close. The following dimensions come from the measured drawings of the property tax records for the estate. The boathouse is basically 23x34 feet, not including the lanai stairs or the area under them. That sounds big, HOWEVER, part of that is the shed roof facing the water (7 feet wide) and the lanai itself which is 15x23 feet. That leaves an interior space upstairs just 10 feet wide by 21 feet long. That is room enough for just the 15x10 foot room mentioned above, which would be considered a medium sized bedroom, and a 5x10 foot bathroom which is just a little larger than the smallest possible full bathroom (5x7 feet).

The guesthouse set depicts the stairs, kitchen wall, dining area, and living room, though with high ceilings, all inside that 10x21 foot boathouse interior space. The bedroom and bathroom set are implied to be under the lanai. I have done drawings of the set and estimate that whole living space to be approximately 20x25 feet. So here comes the math:

Set living/dining/kitchen/stairs = 500 sq ft approximately

Boathouse room/bathroom = 210 sq ft measured

Damn math!!!

The surprising thing is that the space where the bedroom and bathroom sets are supposed to be is far BIGGER than the sets depict. I’d estimate two bedrooms and a bathroom or even two, would fit under that large lanai. Then, where is the chimney on the boathouse for the fireplace in the middle of the guesthouse? Why are there no garage doors in the guesthouse set like in the actual boathouse. Why do NONE of the guesthouse windows match the boathouse windows, just the door? You see my point.

[ZelenskyTheValiant (Ivan)]

That is, for example: the stairs in the guest house are "here," whereas the stairs in the boat house are "there"...

The stairs in the guest house are "here", whereas the stairs in the boat house don't even exist.

The upstairs and downstairs don't connect. Downstairs is just a storage area for a boat (basically a garage) while the upstairs is some kind of little rest area room.

[Pahonu]

That is, for example: the stairs in the guest house are "here," whereas the stairs in the boat house are "there"...

The stairs in the guest house are "here", whereas the stairs in the boat house don't even exist.

The upstairs and downstairs don't connect. Downstairs is just a storage area for a boat (basically a garage) while the upstairs is some kind of little rest area room.

Yes, yes, yes! I think so many people struggle with this because they can’t let go of the simple fact that it’s NOT a guesthouse. It wasn’t conceived of as a guesthouse. It wasn’t designed as a guesthouse. It wasn’t built as a guesthouse.

We can do a thought experiment and think through the process from the architect and client’s perspective. Her new second home, being located right on the coast, Mrs. Wall says she wants an area to store all the water-related equipment she and her guests will be enjoying. A place for groups to clean up after being out on the water should be provided also. This storage space would include more than small boat storage. It might include fishing poles and tackle, perhaps a little sailing dinghy for kids to play in, some diving or snorkeling equipment. Today you could add paddle boards and kayaks. Even jet skis could be rolled down the ramp, through the gates, and into the water.

So the architect, Louis Davis, smartly places a large storage structure out of direct view of the house but right next to the water for functionality. There is a bit of a slope from the grass yard down to the sand so he partly submerges the structure placing the main doors close to the level of the sand to ease moving the equipment in and out. This structure is pretty utilitarian looking, and he still has to consider the request for a space to clean up.

Taking advantage of the sight lines provided by the elevation of the storage structure roof level, he decides to provide for the other functions on a second level. An outdoor space is designed for the group to relax and wait while the indoor bathroom and changing space is used by individual guests. He is careful to visually separate this changing space from the lanai by providing no windows on the wall section separating them. For this second level part of the structure he provides more architectural ornamentation, adding decorative floor tile on the lanai, pillars supporting a wood framed roof structure, and Spanish roof tile matching the main house. All the programmatic requirements are satisfied with an excellent design... for a boathouse!

If Mrs. Wall had requested a guesthouse, it would have been pretty pointless because the main house was specifically designed with five bedroom suites, some with sitting rooms, for her many guests. In any case, for such a guesthouse, the architect would likely have made NONE of the same decisions he did when designing and placing the boathouse on the estate. Almost 50 years later, the producers of a new detective show decide to film at the estate, but they need a guesthouse according to the script. What to do..............?

[eagle]

You know, it's really funny. I picked a bad example -- I just picked the example of stairs, knowing that there are no stairs in the boathouse. I said "For example" (meaning "something like"). I was really wondering whether it was the dimensions of the set vs the boathouse or if it was something else.

And, houses do exist like what you are talking about -- they are called "split foyer" houses, and a friend of mine has one. I agree that it's a bit odd to go up stairs to the front door, then immediately down the same number of stairs to the living room, but that's how it is at their house. I understand that this is a strange layout, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief for that part of it.

So, I got it, the main problem is the dimensions of the show's guest house vs the estate's boat house. Thanks.

[Pahonu]

You know, it's really funny. I picked a bad example -- I just picked the example of stairs, knowing that there are no stairs in the boathouse. I said "For example" (meaning "something like"). I was really wondering whether it was the dimensions of the set vs the boathouse or if it was something else.

And, houses do exist like what you are talking about -- they are called "split foyer" houses, and a friend of mine has one. I agree that it's a bit odd to go up stairs to the front door, then immediately down the same number of stairs to the living room, but that's how it is at their house. I understand that this is a strange layout, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief for that part of it.

So, I got it, the main problem is the dimensions of the show's guest house vs the estate's boat house. Thanks.

No worries, I hope the explanation helped. Sorry if that seemed targeted at you. I have had a lot of people ask about it and the short answer is it won’t fit. Lots of people don’t believe me or don’t want to, I suppose because it ruins the illusion, and they want evidence. A few as I joked about have even argued with me about it after I explained it. So, I try to be thorough in my explanations. The thought experiment was kinda of fun for me as I worked through the process. I have a little background in architecture as I teach in an academy in my high school focusing on architecture and engineering careers. I have learned so much in the 20+ years I’ve been a part of it.

I’ve been in split foyer houses. Split level and tri-level are other terms for this. However, they make use of half-stories, often because of sloping lots. So there are steps up to the foyer and then a half level up or down to the living spaces and bedrooms, which are stacked. In this case, the steps up to the lanai are almost a full story up as the storage area is submerged just about two feet or so below grade at the steps. Then the set shows stairs down a full story with the closet beneath. That’s quite a bit different. That’s why the architect, Davis put a separate door into the storage space under the lanai stairs. It’s just a couple of steps down. Most people don’t even see it when they show shots of the boathouse because of all the foliage.

Here’s a recent pic with a red arrow pointing to the door. It was originally a wood door like the others but is white now.

https://ibb.co/KNpq8ZK

Edit:
I’ll try and add some pics from my SketchUp model showing these angles of the boathouse more clearly.

[Darkhawk]

So, question, and I am really not trying to start something here:

What is the problem with the guest house/boat house? Is it simply dimensions? As in, is it something like this (picking numbers, since I don't know the real numbers): the boat house is 20x20x20 feet (ha), and the guest house stage is 40x40x40 feet?

Or is it something like this: The layout of the show's guest house does not match the layout of the real boat house? That is, for example: the stairs in the guest house are "here," whereas the stairs in the boat house are "there"...

Well for one thing, there is no internal stairs linking the boathouse two levels, the shot of Magnum entering his residence always cutaway once he walked through the door (when filmed from the outside) it cutaway to the movie set as he descended the stairs. The room just inside the door of the boathouse is actually just a small changing room to put your swimwear on, no stairs.

[Pahonu]

I had an idea. I have linked below an image many forum members are familiar with. It shows hypothetical plans for the guesthouse based on the sets. It has a few problems but is reasonably accurate. On the left it shows where the lanai and upper part of the living area would be located.

https://ibb.co/VxnzgGT

I’ve drawn two red lines on that left drawing (poorly with my finger ) but they will demonstrate my point.

From the lower red line down to the bottom of the plan represents the relative size of the enclosed space in the actual boathouse compared to the lanai, which is roughly twice the square footage. There’s no way the set would fit. There’s just a bathroom and bedroom sized space in there. The plans basically reverse the sizes of the indoor and outdoor spaces.

The other red u-shaped line shows the single story tiled shed roof that extends beyond the lanai toward the water. It’s easily visible in photos of that side of the structure, but is omitted in the plans. It’s about 7 feet wide and extends to the edge of the stairs on the right. The two doors to the lower level are in that space, the garage doors facing the water (long part of the line) and a standard door at the right short leg of the red line.

I hope this helps some of you understand the space who might otherwise struggle to visualize it using just my explanations.

[Pahonu]

So, question, and I am really not trying to start something here:

What is the problem with the guest house/boat house? Is it simply dimensions? As in, is it something like this (picking numbers, since I don't know the real numbers): the boat house is 20x20x20 feet (ha), and the guest house stage is 40x40x40 feet?

Or is it something like this: The layout of the show's guest house does not match the layout of the real boat house? That is, for example: the stairs in the guest house are "here," whereas the stairs in the boat house are "there"...

Well for one thing, there is no internal stairs linking the boathouse two levels, the shot of Magnum entering his residence always cutaway once he walked through the door (when filmed from the outside) it cutaway to the movie set as he descended the stairs. The room just inside the door of the boathouse is actually just a small changing room to put your swimwear on, no stairs.

Yes! and also a bathroom on the side facing the neighboring Shriner’s property. This side by the perimeter wall is shown in this link:

https://ibb.co/9tn9Fnx

[eagle]

Yes! and also a bathroom on the side facing the neighboring Shriner’s property. This side by the perimeter wall is shown in this link:

That Shriner's property is something I only learned about in the last few years. I had no idea the guest house was so close to the adjoining property. I mean, I knew the map in "J Digger Doyle" was wrong, but I didn't know how wrong. They did an excellent job with the photography/videography of the show to hide the fact that the property line was so close.

[Pahonu]

Yes! and also a bathroom on the side facing the neighboring Shriner’s property. This side by the perimeter wall is shown in this link:

That Shriner's property is something I only learned about in the last few years. I had no idea the guest house was so close to the adjoining property. I mean, I knew the map in "J Digger Doyle" was wrong, but I didn't know how wrong. They did an excellent job with the photography/videography of the show to hide the fact that the property line was so close.

The map in J Digger Doyle is so wrong! They don’t even show the main house to be the correct shape. It’s drawn as a simple L-shape, which is all we see on the show, but it actually has two ells projecting to the rear with rooftop terraces never shown in the series. Bellisario revealed in an interview that they took great pains to make the estate seem much larger by limiting camera angles to not show the neighbors. The map reinforces that fiction regarding the estate’s size, along with the dialogue in many episodes.

The map also doesn’t show the tennis courts in the correct place. It seems to show two gatehouses. It adds stables, doesn’t show the boathouse, and of course, shows the fictional guesthouse located behind the main house as we see implied so many times as TM walks through the garage wing portal. It also shows all kinds of property surrounding the “main compound” which is referenced in the episode by Higgins. That compound is in reality the entire property, and is still much smaller than shown on the map.

Many people are also shocked by how close the main house is to the opposite property line from the boathouse. The garage wing has just about enough room to the perimeter wall for a car to u-turn into the garage bays. It’s proximity to the neighbors is likely a reason why they avoided filming in these back areas.

[Gorilla Mask]

Hey, Pahonu !

Really, a very convincing demonstration, as usual !

I have a new question: where on the forum can I catch the link to the detailed plans of the guesthouse you are referring to ?

As far as I'm concerned, explaining reality and how the tricks of the cinema make people believe in fiction has always been of great interest to me. It has never degraded my perception and the magic of a show; quite the contrary.

But I might not be like everyone else!

[Pahonu]

Hey, Pahonu !

Really, a very convincing demonstration, as usual !

I have a new question: where on the forum can I catch the link to the detailed plans of the guesthouse you are referring to ?

As far as I'm concerned, explaining reality and how the tricks of the cinema make people believe in fiction has always been of great interest to me. It has never degraded my perception and the magic of a show; quite the contrary.

But I might not be like everyone else!

Hey GM,
Thanks for the compliment. I’m planning on posting some images of the boathouse today, in both perspective and plan view. They are actually somewhere in this very long thread but I’m not sure exactly where. Stay tuned!

[Gorilla Mask]

They are actually somewhere in this very long thread but I’m not sure exactly where. Stay tuned!

That is still a pleasure, pal ! I will stay in touch for sure. In addition, I also intend to get back to work a bit and propose some news on the 'Filming locations' thread !

[Pahonu]

This is for Eagle, Gorilla Mask, and anyone else interested in how the boathouse on the Pahonu estate is arranged and constructed, and sadly for some, how the guesthouse set can’t possibly fit within the actual structure. As I’ve stated many times before on this forum, the dimensions of the model are very accurate, being drawn from both the property tax dimensions recorded and the property plat created of the property at the time of sale a few years ago.

The two images below show well known views of the boathouse as seen in the series. The model does not include foliage which makes the layout and details much more clear.

https://ibb.co/zPQfbBD
https://ibb.co/hK5vQcc

The first image above shows the beachfront view with the garage-like door leading to the lower level storage area. It is directly up a sloped ramp from the sand and through a gate to allow easy movement of water related equipment back and forth, including small boats, hence the name of the structure. The lanai under the hip roof and the door to the interior can be seen beyond the tiled shed roof.

The second image above shows how the structure would be approached from the opposite side. The stairs to the right are well known as leading to the lanai and into the guesthouse set. If you look closely, just to the right of the steps are a second set leading down slightly. These steps lead down to the second, smaller door into the storage area. The first photo below shows this more clearly from a higher angle not shown in the series. Note also the size of the lanai relative to the enclosed space on the second floor. The lanai is roughly twice the size.

https://ibb.co/5hj6p4G
https://ibb.co/tZvvxCH

The second photo above shows a side of the boathouse never scene in the show. It is viewed from the neighboring Shriner’s property over the perimeter wall. The boathouse is just a few feet from the wall and about twenty feet from the sand. The gatehouse can be seen to the far right but would be obscured by foliage in an actual photo.

The last two photos below show sections through my SketchUp model of each level. The first shows the storage level with steps up to the lanai above to the left. There is a small closet beneath those steps. Further left are steps down to the smaller door entering the storage room. The larger garage door can be seen at the bottom along with several small windows around the space, and two interior supporting columns. The nearby tennis court can just be seen on the left and the perimeter wall is running vertically on the right.

https://ibb.co/djyGTrh
https://ibb.co/K2yxz7P

The second photo above shows the upper level with the lanai and enclosed space. It can clearly be seen how small that total space is. Most of it is a single room 10x15 feet with two large windows. To the right is a bathroom with a smaller window facing the Shriner’s property over the perimeter wall. The tiled shed roof covering the rest of the first floor storage area is at the bottom of the image.

That’s it! That’s the whole structure. There are no internal stairs. There is no room for a kitchen, dining area, and living room in that small space. There is no fireplace or bedroom and bathroom for TM on the lower level.

I hope this helps and I’m sorry if it takes away a little of the magic for any fans.

[Pahonu]

Yes! and also a bathroom on the side facing the neighboring Shriner’s property. This side by the perimeter wall is shown in this link:

That Shriner's property is something I only learned about in the last few years. I had no idea the guest house was so close to the adjoining property. I mean, I knew the map in "J Digger Doyle" was wrong, but I didn't know how wrong. They did an excellent job with the photography/videography of the show to hide the fact that the property line was so close.

Hey Eagle,
Here are two images from the back of the property I mentioned in my first response to your post. They show two second floor terraces, left and right, both with pillars supporting shed roofs to cover them, or part of them in the case of the left one. They are the flat-roofed areas with no Spanish tiles. The right one has scallop-topped parapet walls. The left one has a small quarter-circle balcony projecting from where it meets the two-story main house block.

https://ibb.co/tMLGfJ6
https://ibb.co/NsMrRMn

There are lots of other things shown in these pics that were never shown in the series but are present in the property tax records and land plat from the sale.