Death of the Flowers (7.12)

Rate, review & discuss the episodes from the seventh season

Moderator: Styles Bitchley

How Would You Rate This Episode?

10 (Perfect!)
1
1%
9.5 (One of the Best)
2
3%
9.0 (Excellent)
9
13%
8.5 (Very Good)
18
27%
8.0 (Pretty Good)
16
24%
7.5 (Decent)
9
13%
7.0 (Average at Best)
6
9%
6.5 (Not So Good)
3
4%
6.0 (Pretty Bad)
2
3%
5.0 (Just Awful)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 67

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J.J. Walters
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Death of the Flowers (7.12)

#1 Post by J.J. Walters »

This is the official MM thread for Death of the Flowers (7.12). All discussions and reviews for this episode should go here. If you wish to rate the episode, please do so with the poll. The avg. score will be the official 'community rating', which will be used on the episode page (updated monthly).

This thread is also linked in the episode page of the Episode Guide.


Original Air Date: 12/10/1986
After a devastating fight at a florist, suspicion blooms in both Carol and Rick as they question whether their respective mentors may be involved in illegal affairs
Last edited by J.J. Walters on Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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J.J. Walters
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#2 Post by J.J. Walters »

I really, really like this episode! You can see just how much Magnum cares for Carol and how much Icepick means to Rick.

I love how the main theme of this episode (mentors/heroes are not infallible) is represented by three different people, for three different main characters (Magnum/Coach Grant, Rick/Icepick, Carol/Kearns), each with a different background and story.

This episode has all kinds of fun little touches and details in it. We get flashbacks of Rick (with narration!) and Icepick in Chicago in the late 50s. We get Higgins quoting William Cullen Bryant and Thomas Gray. We get to see Magnum reading Chandler's The Simple Art of Murder. We get to see the "Anuenue Room" (or "Rainbow Room"). We see photo albums of Magnum and Carol. We learn that Francis Hofstetler spells his nickname "Icepick", not "Ice Pick"!

How many TV shows would even come close to mentioning/quoting/referencing people like William Cullen Bryant, Thomas Gray, or Raymond Chandler ever, let alone in the same episode? None! The answer is none! ;)

The story has a good flow to it and never has a misstep. And I love the moving, uncharacteristic ending. Very well done.

Great episode!
Higgins: It's not a scratch! It's a bloody gouge!

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rubber chicken
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#3 Post by rubber chicken »

I'll simply say I agree James. :D


I'm pretty sure the beach where Magnum is seen running in this episode is the same one which was used in The Chinese Typewriter. Everything fits pretty well in google earth, except that the beach is a bit straighter now, but it isn't surprising that it would be slightly different after 25 years or so. And I think the difference in the height of the mountains in the background is caused by the use of lenses of different focal lengths.
ImageImage
ImageImage

The beach is at Kawaikui Beach Park, which has a nice parking lot and access convenient for filming equipment. It's also just a short ways east of Kahala and the Hawaii Film Studio. (google maps link)
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I also think I found Judge Hannibal Kearns' house. It's located here in - you guessed it - Kahala. Magnum really should have just taken an apartment there. It's a shame he so often had to drive all the way down from the "north shore." The beautiful tree is gone, and the pool may or may not have the same corners (hard to tell with the fuzzy image) but otherwise it's a very good match.
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Last but not least, I may have found Icepick's house, practically across the street from the judge's (oh the irony). Only one sweeping shot is shown in this episode (backyard only) but it's clear that it's on Kahala beach so that narrows it down. The only other property which resembles it is this one at the west end of the beach. Are their any more episodes which show the outside of his house?
Image

Notice the resemblance of the mountains in the background of Icepick's house and the beach in the first photos.
Last edited by rubber chicken on Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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#4 Post by IslandHopper »

rubber chicken wrote:Last but not least, I may have found Icepick's house, practically across the street from the judge's (oh the irony). Are their any more episodes which show the outside of his house?
Image

Notice the resemblance of the mountains in the background of Icepick's house and the beach in the first photos.
Nice work RC. I believe Icepick's house is also shown in "The People vs. Orville Wright." Magnum goes to Icepick's house looking for Icepick and is met by Icepick's old buddies and his accountant.
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#5 Post by J.J. Walters »

rubber chicken wrote:Magnum really should have just taken an apartment there. It's a shame he so often had to drive all the way down from the "north shore."
Heh, or how about a guesthouse in Waimanalo! I still can't believe they placed the estate on the North Shore! Ugh!

Once again, great work rubber chicken! As IH pointed out, Icepick's house was also seen in "The People vs. Orville Wright". The shots used in "TPvOW" were different from the ones used in "Death of the Flowers", so it's hard to tell if it's the same house, or not.

Image

Image

What's interesting is that there is a later scene where we see Magnum idling in the Ferrari just across the street from Icepick's house. A pan shot starts with a closeup of Icepicks mailbox then moves to the Ferrari. A second shot, from behind the Ferrari, looks towards the house where a corner road sign reads "Diamond Head Rd. & Makalei PL.".

Image

You don't see much of the house, so it could actually be a different location from the previous shots, but the roof shingles certainly look the same. Hmmm.
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rubber chicken
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#6 Post by rubber chicken »

Thanks for your help guys. It looks like Icepick's house in The People vs. Orville Wright (7.21) is not the same location as the one pictured above in Death of the Flowers (7.12). The biggest indicator is that because of Diamond Head you simply can't see the mountains which are visible in Death of the Flowers.
Image

And it does appear that the driveway entrance Magnum is looking at in The People vs. Orville Wright (7.21) is the actual entrance for the house which is shown when Magnum pulls in the driveway and speaks with the men playing croquet.
Image

As for the inside shots with the accountant showing the ocean in the background I can't be sure, but I'm guessing it's likely they were from the same house also. They did often seem to actually take advantage of all parts of a house needed when a set wasn't used. It may have been shot at the house next door though, with "Icepick's" house in the background. Like I said, I'm not certain about this part.

So it does appear that two different properties were used for Icepick's house. I wonder why they just didn't use the one from Death of the Flowers again. The first house is on a straight street so they couldn't show Magnum being sneaky and checking out the guards at the entrance from afar. Maybe that was one reason, or maybe not. By the way, that street Magnum is parked on dead ends into Diamond Head so Magnum would have had to drive past somewhat close at least to the guards and then turn around to park where he did. Just a useless Magnum fact. :wink:
Last edited by rubber chicken on Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#7 Post by J.J. Walters »

Nice work rubber chicken!
Higgins: It's not a scratch! It's a bloody gouge!

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#8 Post by Herman »

Did I doze off while watching, or did they forget to explain exactly who killed Judge Kearns, and why?

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#9 Post by Steve »

I have seen this episode a couple of times in syndication now, and for some reason the name of the episode is......"The Mentor".............
What is the tiltle on the DVD's as I don't have that season on DVD yet........

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#10 Post by golfmobile »

Shouldn't have started watching Sleuth today.

1. When Magnum and Carol are tailing the judge and Carol goes to get burgers, TM puts on his reading glasses and starts reading the Raymond Chandler book. But when he looks up and sees Carol bump into the judge and watches them, he doesn't REMOVE the READING glasses! He wouldn't be able to see squat with his "reading" glasses at a distance or he wouldn't need them only for reading.

2. Odd that TM is NOT with Carol at the funeral -- he's with Lt. Tanaka and Rick - and Icepick -- picking up Grace. Odd they would do their thing at the same time as the funeral, when Thomas has been so supportive of Carol throughout this episode.

See what you people have done to me?

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#11 Post by Mark R.Y. »

If Wendy was 5 in 1958, that would make her 30 in "Distant Relative" (1983). But wasn't she closer to 20 in that?

Otherwise, very fine episode. Interesting how there's barely any dialogue or narration at all in the final few minutes.

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#12 Post by Jay-Firestorm »

Another one that lots of people to like, but I wasn’t too keen on, I’m afraid. :(

[rating=6.5]

Carol asks Thomas to investigate her mentor, a judge, after he has began acting very strangely and secretive. But the case implicates Rick’s friend Ice Pick, and both Carol and Rick begin to question the integrity of their respective mentors. An awkward ep…

-----

This review contains spoilers.

This episode is yet another one that some love, whereas others rank pretty lowly. I’m afraid to say, I fall into the latter camp – I’m not very keen on this one.
The opening trailer for the episode isn’t very inspiring, and sadly it is true of the episode, which is nothing to write home about.

The story is penned by jobbing writers Maryanne Kasica and Michael Scheff. They had written the odd episode of the likes of ‘Hart to Hart’ and ‘Murder, She Wrote’, but this is their only ‘Magnum, p.i.’ contribution. Maybe this is one of the reasons that the episode does not work in my eyes – they just don’t seem to have the ‘feel’ for the series.

But I can’t be completely down on this episode – it does have some good moments. As always, the rapport between Tom Selleck and Kathleen Lloyd is very good (I particularly like the scene(s) when they are following the judge, complete with game of twenty questions!). And for some reason, I also like the scene of Higgins at the garden centre, picking out flowers (which are a motif of this story).

I do like what they were going for here; I think it is good that the series tried something different occasionally. It is just unfortunately that the final result feels rather awkward.

The story starts off with a little potential (emphasis on the little), but sadly by the second half it has become pretty boring for the most part.
Saying that, the episode is notable for the last few minutes having barely any dialogue at all – again, fair play to them for trying something a little different.

So all-in-all, I’m not over enamoured with this one. As I say, I like that they were trying something different, and it is not my least favourite of the season thus far (that goes to the terrible ‘Murder, She Wrote’ crossover ‘Novel Connection’), but this one definitely comes off as one of my lesser favourites of the season.

-----

Other notes, bloopers and misc.

* Other than my old bugbear of the DVD version having the act breaks abridged, I didn’t pick up on anything else with this episode.
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#13 Post by Little Garwood »

James J. Walters wrote: How many TV shows would even come close to mentioning/quoting/referencing people like William Cullen Bryant, Thomas Gray, or Raymond Chandler ever, let alone in the same episode? None! The answer is none! ;)

The story has a good flow to it and never has a misstep. And I love the moving, uncharacteristic ending. Very well done.

Great episode!
I work at a college and those names aren't ever mentioned. Of course, it's a junior college aka "The 13th Grade."

I voted "Excellent."

I'd never seen this episode--as I've said before, back in 1986, I stopped watching MPI after "Death and Taxes"--but this is one of the most moving episodes of the series. There aren't any fast, easy resolutions, but we are given a poignant story about how some things in life just hurt, and that those we look up to also have failings and foibles. I think TV gives us too many neat and tidy wrap ups, but "Death of Flowers" doesn't. It's all the more effective for having us care about supporting characters' and not just Thomas. No gunfights or real fisticuffs, either. Beautifully done.

Ugh. I'm still verklempt after having just watched this. :(
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#14 Post by Carol the Dabbler »

golfmobile wrote:When Magnum and Carol are tailing the judge and Carol goes to get burgers, TM puts on his reading glasses and starts reading the Raymond Chandler book. But when he looks up and sees Carol bump into the judge and watches them, he doesn't REMOVE the READING glasses! He wouldn't be able to see squat with his "reading" glasses at a distance or he wouldn't need them only for reading.
Good point, golf. Hey, James, doesn't that belong in the Episode Guide's Flubs list? (Maybe while you're there, you can correct a typo -- "brake" should be "break.")

I could make something of a case for the glasses bit NOT being a flub, though. I'm (very) nearsighted, not farsighted like TM appears to be, but I do have special glasses for various situations. Nevertheless, I can recognize some things with the "wrong" glasses on, or even without glasses. My recollection is that Carol was wearing a distinctively-colored outfit in that scene. So TM would have seen someone he thought was probably Carol bump into someone in full-length dark clothing (presumably a man in a suit), and could have guessed from her body language that it was the judge.

But, yeah, you woulda thought he'd take off his reading glasses for a confirming look.
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#15 Post by Styles Bitchley »

This is one of my least favourite episodes. I'm not a big fan of Carol, but that's not all. There are just some things I don't like and some things that don't make sense.

First, I don't feel like I need to know that much about Icepick. I like the character as a shady character. He's a bit of a scoundrel that probably has a good heart, but he's still up to some questionable activities. This episode sort of changes him into a 'nice guy'.

There are a few things that are confusing and don't make sense, but top of the list is how Carol seems to become the most important person in the judge's life after he dies. Sorting through his personal belongings? The last person at the funeral? Somehow, I think his family would be a little perturbed by such an intimate presence of a former student at such a personal time!

Also, even if Higgins relented and actually allowed the KKC to host a party for a known organized crime boss (he never would), would he go as far as to help Magnum break into the flower warehouse and put the flowers for Icepick's fete on the KKC account?

BTW, what's up with the outrageous leaf "lei" at the funeral? Is that a traditional Hawaiian accoutrement worn at funerals?
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