Tigers Fan (8.4)
Moderator: Styles Bitchley
- J.J. Walters
- Founding Father
- Posts: 4196
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:54 pm
- Location: Suburbia, USA
- Contact:
Tigers Fan (8.4)
This is the official MM thread for Tigers Fan (8.4). All discussions and reviews for this episode should go here. If you wish to rate the episode, please do so with the poll. The avg. score will be the official 'community rating', which will be used on the episode page (updated monthly).
This thread is also linked in the episode page of the Episode Guide.
Original Air Date: 11/4/1987
When his friend Lt. Tanaka is shot to death, Magnum investigates the murder - including allegations that the man was involved in illicit activities.
This thread is also linked in the episode page of the Episode Guide.
Original Air Date: 11/4/1987
When his friend Lt. Tanaka is shot to death, Magnum investigates the murder - including allegations that the man was involved in illicit activities.
Last edited by J.J. Walters on Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- golfmobile
- Chopper Pilot Wannabe
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 pm
- Location: Atlanta area
- Contact:
I was watching this one today too. I haven't finished it, as I got interrupted (to go help Larry put a new battery in my car) but in the very first scene, some guys on a stake-out are talking and one asks if anyone else had watched "The Rockford Files" the night before because it had Lance White on it!!
Nice little "inside joke," but it rather contradicts the time frame, doesn't it? That show would have been on in 1979-80 -- 8-9 years before this episode -- so that wouldn't really make sense, would it? The MPI episode was supposed to be in "present" time, not like a flashback.
One for the "shocking flubs"?
golf
Nice little "inside joke," but it rather contradicts the time frame, doesn't it? That show would have been on in 1979-80 -- 8-9 years before this episode -- so that wouldn't really make sense, would it? The MPI episode was supposed to be in "present" time, not like a flashback.
One for the "shocking flubs"?
golf
"Portside, buddy."
- IslandHopper
- Master Flub Spotter
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:08 am
- golfmobile
- Chopper Pilot Wannabe
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 pm
- Location: Atlanta area
- Contact:
The Rockford Files ended (according to www.imdb.com) in 1980, so a re-run eight years later? Maybe in syndication? But I can't find that TRF was in syndication in 1987-88. IH, perhaps you can pin that down for us?
To make the MPI episode more accurate chronology-wise, the person he asked the question of responded to the effect, "Why were you watching TRF when the Watergate hearings are going on?"
Elucidation, IH?
golf
To make the MPI episode more accurate chronology-wise, the person he asked the question of responded to the effect, "Why were you watching TRF when the Watergate hearings are going on?"
Elucidation, IH?
golf
"Portside, buddy."
- IslandHopper
- Master Flub Spotter
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:08 am
At Golf’s request I did a little research regarding the syndication of “The Rockford Files” (TFR). According to Wikipedia, Universal began syndicating the show in 1979 and marketed it to local stations well into the early and middle 1980s. If this is true, it would seem possible that the show could have been seen on a re-run in 1987 or 1988. Who knows for sure if the information on Wikipedia is totally accurate, so take it for what it’s worth. It is always possible that the guy was a “TFR” junkie and video taped the “Lance White” episodes and continued to re-watch them over and over again. This would not be unheard of considering that most of us continue to watch the same episodes of “MPI” many times over.
I haven’t seen the “Tigers Fan” episode in a while and do not recall the other reference to the “Watergate Hearings”, but that reference is more curious to me than the reference to “TRF”, because as far as I can remember, the Watergate hearings took place in 1974. Maybe the guy was referring to a recent documentary on the hearings? As Golf indicated, it is always possible that the reference to “TRF” was a flub, however, that can be explained away as it may have been seen on a re-run or on video tape, but I wonder why the writers would have included the Watergate reference.
I haven’t seen the “Tigers Fan” episode in a while and do not recall the other reference to the “Watergate Hearings”, but that reference is more curious to me than the reference to “TRF”, because as far as I can remember, the Watergate hearings took place in 1974. Maybe the guy was referring to a recent documentary on the hearings? As Golf indicated, it is always possible that the reference to “TRF” was a flub, however, that can be explained away as it may have been seen on a re-run or on video tape, but I wonder why the writers would have included the Watergate reference.
The answer is obvious, old man. Logic is irrelevant. It's simply Tropical Madness. (J.Q. Higgins)
- golfmobile
- Chopper Pilot Wannabe
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 pm
- Location: Atlanta area
- Contact:
- golfmobile
- Chopper Pilot Wannabe
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 pm
- Location: Atlanta area
- Contact:
Okay, here's the opening clip from "Tigers Fan." As I re-viewed it, I realized that this scene IS a flashback to when Tanaka's partner (whom he is trying to avenge when he gets killed) is killed (according t the script, about 11 years earlier, I think, again slightly off by actual count, from 1974 to 1987).
However, it is still "off" time-wise, as shown by the dialogue, as the Watergate hearings, as stated earlier, were in 1974, and the Lance White episodes on The Rockford Files (TRF) were in 1979-80. So the"continuity" is stil five years off! I think that should count as a flub. (Sorry for the lousy video -- I just used my camcorder to shoot the scene as it showed on the TV in my VHS player -- but the audio is sufficient, and that's what we needed to make a determination, isn't it?)
"Tigers Fan" Opening Clip
IH, opinion?
By the way, in researching the timelines here, for the Watergate hearings and when TS was LW on TRF, I found an article that talked about all the "supporting" characters on TRF. It was interesting to see how many of them also showed up in MPI, which I think has already been discussed on forums here -- Joe Santos, Gretchen Corbett, Stuart Margolin, etc. From a practical standpoint, I'll bet those supporting/character actors were delighted to be "employed" again -- and to have to go to Hawaii to work!! Oh, THAT's a chore, isn't it????
golf
However, it is still "off" time-wise, as shown by the dialogue, as the Watergate hearings, as stated earlier, were in 1974, and the Lance White episodes on The Rockford Files (TRF) were in 1979-80. So the"continuity" is stil five years off! I think that should count as a flub. (Sorry for the lousy video -- I just used my camcorder to shoot the scene as it showed on the TV in my VHS player -- but the audio is sufficient, and that's what we needed to make a determination, isn't it?)
"Tigers Fan" Opening Clip
IH, opinion?
By the way, in researching the timelines here, for the Watergate hearings and when TS was LW on TRF, I found an article that talked about all the "supporting" characters on TRF. It was interesting to see how many of them also showed up in MPI, which I think has already been discussed on forums here -- Joe Santos, Gretchen Corbett, Stuart Margolin, etc. From a practical standpoint, I'll bet those supporting/character actors were delighted to be "employed" again -- and to have to go to Hawaii to work!! Oh, THAT's a chore, isn't it????
golf
"Portside, buddy."
- IslandHopper
- Master Flub Spotter
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:08 am
Ah, thanks for clarifying that Golf. As you discovered, the opening scene is a flashback (dream of Tanaka) to 1974 as they seemed to be discussing the "Watergate" hearings in the present. You are right, this is a flub, because the first "Lance White" episode didn't air until 1978 and the second episode aired in 1979. So, it appears that they are talking about an episode that won't air for at least 4 years in the future. Nice work.
The answer is obvious, old man. Logic is irrelevant. It's simply Tropical Madness. (J.Q. Higgins)
- J.J. Walters
- Founding Father
- Posts: 4196
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:54 pm
- Location: Suburbia, USA
- Contact:
- golfmobile
- Chopper Pilot Wannabe
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:47 pm
- Location: Atlanta area
- Contact:
I don't mean to be a cynic, but everyone knew this WAS the final season. So I think they (producers, writers, whatever "powers that be") decided to make as big an impact as they could. So it was very dramatic and of great interest to the viewers to have established characters killed off.
And I risk being ostracized by saying this, BUT AT THE TIME I WATCHED THE FINAL EPISODE when it actually aired, I was very disappointed in the ending with Thomas going back into the Navy because of Lily and by Rick's marrying (or almost marrying) such an unlikeable and unsympathetic female. That was my feeling at the time and it still is. I'm sorry, folks, but I just didn't like that ending.
1. The Navy scenario: Okay, yes, it did give Thomas a steady income, but was he going to mooch off Higgins to be his babysitter while he was at work at the naval base every day? Thomas left the Navy because he didn't want to deal with the politics and regulations. I was disappointed that he rather compromised his principles just because he felt responsible for a daughter. He wouldn't be a very happy father in that case and therefore not a good father (IN MY OPINION). I'm not sure I have a better suggestion for a job for him, but something like his taking a well-paying and important job as head of security at one of the really big Honolulu hotels where he would have a live-in apartment on-site and we would see him arranging for some kind of day care while he was officially at work and also making arrangements for a back-up babysitter if he had to do something at night (a good excuse to give, for example, a very reliable native Hawaiian cleaning lady at the hotel a chance to earn more money and show how her extended family would be of benefit to Lily, who was certainly short on family at this point in time).
2. If they were going to have Rick marry someone, I think it should have been someone with whom we or at least he had had previous experiences -- like maybe bring back Lisa from "Woman on the Beach." I mean, I assume she still lived in Hawaii. She did in that episode and she and Rick rather hit it off, and the guys all helped her. It would have been more satisfying to me if she and Rick had run into each other again and somehow rekindled a romance. Then we would have WANTED Rick to say "I do" at the end instead of our not caring whether he did or not when standing beside that flake they put in this episode.
Again, these are just some ideas I'm throwing out because I was disappointed in 1988 and felt the ending was a really big letdown to something that had been so good for so long. Like if Cheers had ended when Sam sold the bar and sank his boat . . . .
golf
And I risk being ostracized by saying this, BUT AT THE TIME I WATCHED THE FINAL EPISODE when it actually aired, I was very disappointed in the ending with Thomas going back into the Navy because of Lily and by Rick's marrying (or almost marrying) such an unlikeable and unsympathetic female. That was my feeling at the time and it still is. I'm sorry, folks, but I just didn't like that ending.
1. The Navy scenario: Okay, yes, it did give Thomas a steady income, but was he going to mooch off Higgins to be his babysitter while he was at work at the naval base every day? Thomas left the Navy because he didn't want to deal with the politics and regulations. I was disappointed that he rather compromised his principles just because he felt responsible for a daughter. He wouldn't be a very happy father in that case and therefore not a good father (IN MY OPINION). I'm not sure I have a better suggestion for a job for him, but something like his taking a well-paying and important job as head of security at one of the really big Honolulu hotels where he would have a live-in apartment on-site and we would see him arranging for some kind of day care while he was officially at work and also making arrangements for a back-up babysitter if he had to do something at night (a good excuse to give, for example, a very reliable native Hawaiian cleaning lady at the hotel a chance to earn more money and show how her extended family would be of benefit to Lily, who was certainly short on family at this point in time).
2. If they were going to have Rick marry someone, I think it should have been someone with whom we or at least he had had previous experiences -- like maybe bring back Lisa from "Woman on the Beach." I mean, I assume she still lived in Hawaii. She did in that episode and she and Rick rather hit it off, and the guys all helped her. It would have been more satisfying to me if she and Rick had run into each other again and somehow rekindled a romance. Then we would have WANTED Rick to say "I do" at the end instead of our not caring whether he did or not when standing beside that flake they put in this episode.
Again, these are just some ideas I'm throwing out because I was disappointed in 1988 and felt the ending was a really big letdown to something that had been so good for so long. Like if Cheers had ended when Sam sold the bar and sank his boat . . . .
golf
"Portside, buddy."
Damn golf!golfmobile wrote:I don't mean to be a cynic, but everyone knew this WAS the final season. So I think they (producers, writers, whatever "powers that be") decided to make as big an impact as they could. So it was very dramatic and of great interest to the viewers to have established characters killed off.
And I risk being ostracized by saying this, BUT AT THE TIME I WATCHED THE FINAL EPISODE when it actually aired, I was very disappointed in the ending with Thomas going back into the Navy because of Lily and by Rick's marrying (or almost marrying) such an unlikeable and unsympathetic female. That was my feeling at the time and it still is. I'm sorry, folks, but I just didn't like that ending.
1. The Navy scenario: Okay, yes, it did give Thomas a steady income, but was he going to mooch off Higgins to be his babysitter while he was at work at the naval base every day? Thomas left the Navy because he didn't want to deal with the politics and regulations. I was disappointed that he rather compromised his principles just because he felt responsible for a daughter. He wouldn't be a very happy father in that case and therefore not a good father (IN MY OPINION). I'm not sure I have a better suggestion for a job for him, but something like his taking a well-paying and important job as head of security at one of the really big Honolulu hotels where he would have a live-in apartment on-site and we would see him arranging for some kind of day care while he was officially at work and also making arrangements for a back-up babysitter if he had to do something at night (a good excuse to give, for example, a very reliable native Hawaiian cleaning lady at the hotel a chance to earn more money and show how her extended family would be of benefit to Lily, who was certainly short on family at this point in time).
2. If they were going to have Rick marry someone, I think it should have been someone with whom we or at least he had had previous experiences -- like maybe bring back Lisa from "Woman on the Beach." I mean, I assume she still lived in Hawaii. She did in that episode and she and Rick rather hit it off, and the guys all helped her. It would have been more satisfying to me if she and Rick had run into each other again and somehow rekindled a romance. Then we would have WANTED Rick to say "I do" at the end instead of our not caring whether he did or not when standing beside that flake they put in this episode.
Again, these are just some ideas I'm throwing out because I was disappointed in 1988 and felt the ending was a really big letdown to something that had been so good for so long. Like if Cheers had ended when Sam sold the bar and sank his boat . . . .
golf
I do agree with you about the Navy thing, but I have a feeling Magnum went back to Virginia for his naval career. There was too much "Tidewater" in the final ep for me to think he stayed in Hawaii. Plus, Magnum has HIS family there.
I completely agree that the house detective thing would have worked out well.
In my opinion, I don't think it would have been a really big deal if Magnum mooched off Higgins for babysitting. Higgins has a bond with Lily, and besides that, Higgins on several occaisions (save "Thank Heaven for Little Girls and Big Ones Too" when he was still a fascist) has shown that he likes kids.
See "Basket Case", "Tran Quoc Jones", "Missing Melody" for examples.
I can see Higgins as the "grandfatherly" type, but maybe its just me...
Yeah, the Rick ending, to me was like the writers saying:
"OK, TC's getting back with the ex and the kids, Magnum goes back to the Navy, Higgins returns to his sedentary life of hanging out with Agatha, social functions, and polo. Hmmm. What to do with Rick? Oh, yeah, here's a good one guys (and gals)! Lets have Rick marry some peripheral character that nobody really has embraced due to her lack of time on the show. Hmmm. Who to pick. Oh wait, who was the prostitute in those two episodes? No, not the one who starred in them! the OTHER one. Yeah! thats the ticket, lets have Rick shack up with her!"
No offense to Ms. Davis or her acting chops, but it really was pretty poorly thought out by the writers.
I agree, Judith Chapman would have been a far better choice. She comes out of NOWHERE having not been on the show for 6 years, has a case, Magnum and Co. solve it, she falls for Rick, and BAM! marriage at the end. Actually, I think that might have worked out better than the whole Linda Lee Ellison scenario that was in the finale. Hardcore fans would get it, and there would be some buildup to it, ala L.A.
Oh well, it is what it is and I'll be at the Best Buy after work buying Season 8 regardless. on March 4th
- IslandHopper
- Master Flub Spotter
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:08 am
Great observations Golf and Doc. Higgins as Mr. French. I can buy that.
I don't have a problem with Magnum going back in the Navy, because other than being a private investigator, that is all he really knows. Toward the final half of the series, Magnum, is seen testing the waters in different jobs in an attempt to grow up and become more independent. These include a (1) teacher-"Murder 101" (season 5)-I actually think this would have been a pretty nice transition for him, but we never hear of him teaching again, so obviously it didn't take; (2) a Hotel Detective-"The Hotel Dick" (season 6); (3) full-time investigator for a mainland oil company, which is the reason he is taking flying lessons from TC-"On The Fly" (season 7); and (4) an entrepreneur attempting to sell Hawaiian vacations-"The Great Hawaiian Adventure Company" (season Eight).
None of these endeavors worked out for Magnum, and now that he knows Lily is in fact his daughter, he can't afford to live off of the good graces of Robin Masters. Magnum's investigation business was never very steady. He always was without funds despite not having to pay for various bills that most of us have, i.e., rent/mortgage, car payment, car insurance, etc. The Navy was not solely his only alternative, it was the perfect alternative. It would provide him with a steady and more substantial income than he was making as a private investigator. He re-entered the Navy as a full Commander (O-5). He already has 10 years of service in the Navy, which means he would only need 10 more years to retire and receive a pension. Even if he was never promoted past the rank of Commander, he would still have a fairly decent pension to retire on. However, because Magnum was so highly sought after by the Navy (Memories Are Forever, Blood & Honor, Resolutions), it is likely that he would have made at least the rank of Captain (O-6). As long as he stayed healthy, he could even stay for 30 years and try to make Rear Admiral or higher.
Although Lily was still a child when her stepfather, General Nguyen, was killed, she still grew up as the daughter of a military officer. It's not as though Michelle was always around to take care of her. Michelle was a double agent (The Tiger), so she probably wasn't around all that much either. Lily would have been accustomed to being taken care of by servants. It is the life she was born into, so I don't think the transition would have been difficult for her to make.
Based on Magnum's career in the Navy thus far, I always figured that he went back into the Navy as a leader of a S.E.A.L. team, or as a N.I.A. officer. Both of these positions are highly critical and would often require him to be stationed in remote parts of the world from time-to-time. It is also possible that Magnum could have been stationed at Washington, D.C., Virginia, San Diego, Pearl Harbor, or some other mainland base. If he was stationed overseas, I don't think that would be as big of a problem since Lily is accustomed to that life style. Now, I'm sure he would want to spend as much time with Lily since he just really met her, but I'm sure that would have been one of the things he would have had to evaluate before committing to go back into the Navy.
I agree with you about Rick marrying Cleo. I also think Judith Chapman's character in both, "The Black Orchid" and "The Woman On The Beach" would have been ideal because both characters liked to dress and portray characters from the 1940s, just like Rick.
There are so many possibilities. That's why it would have been fun to see an MPI movie, but only if the original cast were playing their original characters. No cameos. I understand this is not likely, so I really don't even want an MPI movie to be made.
I don't have a problem with Magnum going back in the Navy, because other than being a private investigator, that is all he really knows. Toward the final half of the series, Magnum, is seen testing the waters in different jobs in an attempt to grow up and become more independent. These include a (1) teacher-"Murder 101" (season 5)-I actually think this would have been a pretty nice transition for him, but we never hear of him teaching again, so obviously it didn't take; (2) a Hotel Detective-"The Hotel Dick" (season 6); (3) full-time investigator for a mainland oil company, which is the reason he is taking flying lessons from TC-"On The Fly" (season 7); and (4) an entrepreneur attempting to sell Hawaiian vacations-"The Great Hawaiian Adventure Company" (season Eight).
None of these endeavors worked out for Magnum, and now that he knows Lily is in fact his daughter, he can't afford to live off of the good graces of Robin Masters. Magnum's investigation business was never very steady. He always was without funds despite not having to pay for various bills that most of us have, i.e., rent/mortgage, car payment, car insurance, etc. The Navy was not solely his only alternative, it was the perfect alternative. It would provide him with a steady and more substantial income than he was making as a private investigator. He re-entered the Navy as a full Commander (O-5). He already has 10 years of service in the Navy, which means he would only need 10 more years to retire and receive a pension. Even if he was never promoted past the rank of Commander, he would still have a fairly decent pension to retire on. However, because Magnum was so highly sought after by the Navy (Memories Are Forever, Blood & Honor, Resolutions), it is likely that he would have made at least the rank of Captain (O-6). As long as he stayed healthy, he could even stay for 30 years and try to make Rear Admiral or higher.
Although Lily was still a child when her stepfather, General Nguyen, was killed, she still grew up as the daughter of a military officer. It's not as though Michelle was always around to take care of her. Michelle was a double agent (The Tiger), so she probably wasn't around all that much either. Lily would have been accustomed to being taken care of by servants. It is the life she was born into, so I don't think the transition would have been difficult for her to make.
Based on Magnum's career in the Navy thus far, I always figured that he went back into the Navy as a leader of a S.E.A.L. team, or as a N.I.A. officer. Both of these positions are highly critical and would often require him to be stationed in remote parts of the world from time-to-time. It is also possible that Magnum could have been stationed at Washington, D.C., Virginia, San Diego, Pearl Harbor, or some other mainland base. If he was stationed overseas, I don't think that would be as big of a problem since Lily is accustomed to that life style. Now, I'm sure he would want to spend as much time with Lily since he just really met her, but I'm sure that would have been one of the things he would have had to evaluate before committing to go back into the Navy.
I agree with you about Rick marrying Cleo. I also think Judith Chapman's character in both, "The Black Orchid" and "The Woman On The Beach" would have been ideal because both characters liked to dress and portray characters from the 1940s, just like Rick.
There are so many possibilities. That's why it would have been fun to see an MPI movie, but only if the original cast were playing their original characters. No cameos. I understand this is not likely, so I really don't even want an MPI movie to be made.
Last edited by IslandHopper on Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
The answer is obvious, old man. Logic is irrelevant. It's simply Tropical Madness. (J.Q. Higgins)